Professional Wick Checker
#2: Jan 28th 2023 at 2:32:16 PM
Link: The Baroness.
I haven't seen male examples either. I don't think this is a "sexy female villainess" trope in general; that's just the sexpot type. I think the female Soviet agent stereotype can be its own trope, but we might need a wick check first to determine whether the "Sexpot" and "Rosa Klebb" types should be split or not. And to see if a good number of wicks are ZCEs because we don't judge this based on on-page examples.
The 3 problems/aspects here are:
- The trope might attract ZCEs or partial context examples that ignore the other requirements of the trope.
- The trope might need to be broadened to fit misuse or a clean-up effort to remove misuse and ZCEs.
- If the trope types are both very common (and I don't think they are; I only see the "Sexpot" nowadays), split them off if deemed necessary.
MorganWick
(Elder Troper)
#3: Jan 29th 2023 at 1:29:52 AM
The archived discussion
is illuminating, and suggests that there's been talk about splitting this into two tropes for nearly 15 years.
Edited by MorganWick on Jan 29th 2023 at 1:32:24 AM
Total posts: 3
The first issue I spotted on the page is that the page image is the exact same as the Trope Namer character. But while trying to find suggestions, I got confused about what this trope actually is.
I personally always perceive the trope as a "female villainess in a position of authority that has a sadistic and domineering streak". And while the start description and the trope laconic seems to support that, the rest description also makes a big deal of how that is a stereotype of female note agents in Soviet / Nazi / Totalitarian regimes, similar to how Dragon Lady is an Eastern villainess stereotype. It even goes on to list two separate "Types" of 'Baroness' stereotypes, with the "Rosa Klebb" one actually contradicting the first idea by saying she's often asexual.
The examples are also kind of a mess. There are tons of violations of Type Labels Are Not Examples, most of them hidden as ZCE. Many of the examples ignore the Totalitarian angle, and some even ignore the "authority" angle and just talk about a sexy domineering villainess.
So, should the Totalitarian angle always be a requirement? Should this be Always Female? Does the "sadist authoritarian villainess" concept need to be split from the female Soviet agent stereotype? Should the "Sexpot" and "Rosa Klebb" also be split?
I feel this trope needs help, but I'm not sure where to start.