Primos (Disney Show From Natasha Kline)

This topic from the looks of it is stuck in a negativity loop

Negativity breeds negativity.

But they probably planned for this.

Edited by FinalMachine on Jul 2nd 2023 at 7:50:44 AM

> But they probably planned for this.

Nobody planned for this level of negativity and outrage,oh you can expect a show to attract some criticism that's unavoidable but a massive backlash to a intro and not an actual episode is not something you can anticipate

That's disingenuous. Think of how many people will hatewatch this just because of the controversy. Disney knows this, and knows it well.

I'm just going to skip touching on the whole idea that the creator hates the Mexican half of her heritage and the show is a twisted revenge scheme to ask in what situations Disney has deliberately done a No Such Thing as Bad Publicity marketing stunt?

I will try to just be at least A LITTLE positive. I think Gordita will be a fan favorite, she's a lil cutie... Even if her name is an awful fat joke, and extremely mean spirited to call such a cute and thin girl fat. (BTW I am fat and I dont mean stop bullying the pretty people but rather stop creating a complex in girls)

Oops the post was still quite negative. Oh well I tried.

Edited by AegisP on Jul 2nd 2023 at 8:30:59 AM

Indie animation isn’t really a super viable route in this economy. That Disney turns its properties into products is nothing new and yet works of art can been managed to be created at the studio regardless.

I really don’t like this insinuation because “your truth is emotional blackmail” can be stamped onto any testimony without distinction. “Emotional blackmail or not emotional blackmail” is not dependent on whether you like their truth or not.

Some of this feels like saying that you’re not allowed to portray poverty. Plus, caricature is nothing new in Latine art. Look at photos of Frida Kahlo, her unibrow wasn’t as thick as her art made it to be.

This feels like reading affectionate caricatures as negativity as possible. It’s like saying “wow, Big City Greens is written by self-hating Midwesterners who portray country folk as stupid technology-blind hicks with no shoes and MAGA hats”.

So, Amphibia Season 3 is not allowed to be marketed outside of Los Angeles?

And others have covered the bizarre claim that Disney is baiting controversy. Disney panics at the thought of anybody not liking it.

I hate defending the person that was so damn negative but Amphibia actually is representation done right and Thai people loved it. The only "bad" thing about is that Matt Braly's mom speaking Thai was a bit unenthusiastic and the Thai dub redubbed her with proper acting, which is understandable since she isnt a professional voice actress.

I'd argue it's been their bread and butter for a while. You don't find it conspicuous they conveniently seem to attract online hate with everything they do or change? Every alteration for established characters, or controversy for new ones, is a calculated move and it's seriously underestimating the biggest media company in the world to think it's accidental or done for magnanimous reasons.

Observe it enough times and even a real mouse would wise up to it. They do get money for every hatewatch, and money for everyone watching "to own the trolls", and the controversy is free advertising and a chance to lionize whoever is put in the spotlight, even if the show is bad. They can just shut down any criticism as an "-ism" and keep the "moral high ground" without having to actually make a compelling show.

Sounds cynical? No, it's just business. Those shows would have made even worse bank without the surrounding controversy. They have no moral obligations, only legal ones (and Disney is known to mess with the law to get their way). They have good will and money to spare at levels most people cannot comprehend, because they are the top dog and no one can win against them, and if they do, it's a mere scratch.

This show is not a display of sympathy for second/third generation Latin American US immigrants, it's something to get their money first and foremost, and then to gather sympathy from what they call "latinx" (which is probably the most infuriating way to refer to us that exists, make no mistake. We would never call ourselves that unless it's sarcastically to make fun of gringos thinking they speak in our behalf.) by invoking "representation".

Maybe we don't need that kind of "representation", specially when other shows that came before actually managed to do it without trying. Also nobody thinks that maybe we can represent ourselves. The ghost of Don Ramón would cry at this insanity.

I think that people who are determined to hate will certainly target a lot of things.

90 percent of which tend to be “rage because they made character POC and/or woman”

*looks at myself, my therapist, friends in a Latinx movies club I’m in, the job aid city program here, the Puerto Rican scholarly journal that invented the term, etc*

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 2nd 2023 at 9:27:31 AM

Hard to say how right or wrong the representation is when we haven't even had a full episode yet. All of this is based off the intro and some meta-textual occurrences surrounding the show which has blown up into a PR nightmare.

Only thing I can glean from all of this is that the artwork is not exactly unique or eye-catching, the premise is a bit derivative and Follow the Leader to Nickelodeon's Loud House, and that they placed the main character's major foibles on full blast in the intro (her bad grammar), while shows similar (Amphibia and The Ghost and Molly Mc Gee) usually keep the main characters' somewhat loose connection to their home culture as background noise, which can be easily misconstrued as mocking without context.

That said, the surrounding bits are not new or uncommon in American kids media. Being poverty stricken in a rundown house is seen in plenty of shows (Loud House, Big City Green, The Ghost and Molly Mc Gee, Clarence, Hey Arnold, the Amazing World of Gumball). "Earthquake Heights" is not unique as there are shows and places that have based their names on weather patterns (Rocky and Bullwinkle has Frostbite Falls, there are cities in the US named Hurricane and Snow Corner). And representation in one of the major city centers of the US is not a detestable offense, just because its not universal.

Maybe it's that the tropes are getting a bit old now and the desire is for something new, but it's a bit overly cynical to say this is just Disney trying to get a rise for advertisement, especially for right now a fairly low key children's animated show and Disney being very big on avoiding major PR backlashes to maintain its family friendly image. It's also overly cynical to say Disney doesn't know how to do representation when a lot of prominent shows that are celebrated for their representation are Disney. It's also conflating their creative workers with their marketing/business handlers, as we know from various shows in both CN, Nick, and Disney that there is a lot of heart in the creative side, but a lot of bean counters and haters on the business side. I think we should at least extend some bit of credit to Natasha Kline as we did for Matt Braly, Dana Terrace, Dan Povenmire, and all the other creators until we actually have a working show to critique, and give them at least the benefit of the doubt that they're doing this with some sense of artistic passion.

Edited by HeyMikey on Jul 2nd 2023 at 10:03:23 AM

I'm not aiming to hate the show. I wouldn't have even noticed it existed if not because the voice actress came out guns blazing to arrogantly insult my mother tongue, IN ENGLISH, dismissing it as something she can't be bothered to improve, while also insulting my Spanish friends by proxy. She laughs while telling us to shut up from the comfort of her American house.

You seriously see nothing wrong with that?

Craig of the creek is not poverty stricken. The dad got an apple watch parody for his birthday, they own a gaming system, mom bought a Gucci parody purse, sending their oldest kid to college is not a hardship and their extended family is also well off.

I can't think of any obviously poor kid in the show except maybe Roger the bridge troll, who is unkempt in general. Still love cotc.

Yeah, The Craig Of The Creek family may not be Coming To America rich but associating black people with poverty... the person who said this might want to edit that out I suggest.

Could have sworn there were some minor background characters that were depicted as lower economic class, like Stinky Peterson in Hey Arnold. I'm not talking about Craig, I know he's fairly comfortable standard middle class.

And I'm pretty sure all of us thought the VA's Tik Tok video was incredibly tone deaf at best and hatefully ignorant at worst. Nobody is making excuses for her and we're glad she took the video down. Not all of the criticisms levied are aimed at her though, they're things that are very benign turned up for maximum outrage. Terremoto Heights is not bad with our current understanding. A large family in a single home is not bad with our current understanding. Being lower economic class is not bad with our current understanding. Until we have additional context, these are not exactly things to be riled up about.

Edited by HeyMikey on Jul 2nd 2023 at 9:47:30 AM

But we are not talking about Hey Arnold. At least I am not.

EDIT: If you are not talking about Craig why is it on that list?

Edited by AegisP on Jul 2nd 2023 at 9:48:41 AM

I am not in the mood to debate "baby's first anti-capitalism" type arguments if it's just gonna be lying to justify harassment campaigns and bizarre conspiracies about intentionally courting controversy. Disney hates courting controversy, that's why they bow to conservatives all the fucking time.

There is no "we". Do not speak for all Latin Americans. Plenty of them use "Latinx" or "Latine". This is just hard-headed faux nationalism. "We". What a joke.

Edited by Diana1969 on Jul 2nd 2023 at 11:52:15 AM

It was in my list of examples of shows that had characters of lower economic class, and Hey Arnold was among them. Arnold is not lower class, though not exceedingly wealthy, as Arnold's grandparents are landlords and Arnold's parents have a non-lower class occupation of explorers and international humanitarians.

Edited by HeyMikey on Jul 2nd 2023 at 9:55:39 AM

None of the characters in those shows struck me as particularly poor. Owning a house in an American suburb is like the opposite of poverty from my point of view.

There is an animatic floating around (which is probably against the rules to link, but you may find it easily) and that's where I got the thing of the parents being depicted as cheapskates. Despite owning a massive house in an American suburb they have to celebrate birthdays in clusters so they don't have to buy more than one cake, and putting emphasis repeatedly on the cake being plain and store-bought? That's...weird. Very weird. There's a weird uncomfortable whiplash in there.

It's not that simple.

It is that simple when talking about cartoon characters in shows for kids.

I know poverty. That is not it.

...this is such a self-flagellating display of narrow nationalist nonsense that it's disgusting.

Don Ramon. A fictional character from El Chavo. Would be upset with a goddamned cartoon?

No, I don't care if it's referring to the actor who played Don Ramon, it's still silly.

Mate, this is coming off as ridiculous posturing mixed with obvious misogyny and conspiracy, I suggest dropping it and moving on.

Edited by Diana1969 on Jul 2nd 2023 at 12:01:25 PM

Hey Mikey, I didnt want to be mean, but I strongly suggest you remove Craig from your list. Craig isnt poor and we dont see much of any other kids' houselives to know if they are poor.

Excuse me? Mysoginy? What are you talking about? Are you trying to shut me down with ad hominem attacks? I haven't attacked you in any way.

The problem would have been the same if the person smugly laughing at my language was a man. It's absolutely insidious to suggest it's because it's a woman.