Occult secret agency against supernatural creatures, name WIP, interest check/feedback thread.

NOTE: This is not the actual signup thread, just an interest check/feedback thread. If you're looking for the signup thread, it's here.

This interest check thread is to a recent game idea I shared in the looking for players thread. So, why an interest check and not a signup yet? Well, while I think I've already figured out most of what I'd like the game to be like, including mission ideas, there's a couple things I'm not decided on; plus, if it so happens that any of my ideas for the game are actually unpopular or something, I want this to be a chance for people to offer feedback and/or suggestions on those things before they would become set in stone. Other than the core premise of the game being about a secret agency fighting against supernatural spooks, I don't feel myself so attached to any of the ideas I have that I couldn't be convinced to change them. Plus I'm making this its own thread so as to not bog down any other threads with chatting about it.

Also, feel free to use this thread to brainstorm character ideas, or just to say that you'd like to play and nothing else. (Though I'd really appreciate any feedback on things as well.)

Now that that's established, on to the meat and potatoes of this thread, of explaining my thoughts so far on the game setting and mechanics. I'll start with...

The setting

• The world: Other than the obvious of the supernatural and magic being real, I was intending Like Reality, Unless Noted, with one major historical exception and a possible recent exception. I'm torn on the game either being set in the year 2000/early 2000s, because something about that just feels right, or setting it in present day with one change being that Covid never happened, to make interactions between people simpler. The major historical exception I'm thinking of is the infamous Salem Witch Trials; the official and publicly known version of the events is the same as our real life, but the secret agency knows and has covered up that that's not actually what went down. They know that the women on trial were in fact what the agency classifies as witches; not that they were necessarily evil or malicious, but just that they were in fact actually doing magic. The agency also knows that the events did not go as the official history says, and that the aftermath of the events led to the agency's creation; they do not know what exactly actually happened though, as between the extensive effort that was made to cover up the truth and some maybe accidental maybe not so accidental destruction of records has left even the agency in the dark as to the truth of it. It doesn't really come up as anything important to the agency nowadays though.
  • Also as for where the game will be set, I was planning the U.S. North West region, plus maybe a bit of Canada; the player characters would be traveling around to various locales around there for different missions.

• The agency: See here's one of my current problems; I can't think of an actual name for it. I'm terrible at coming up with names, and while random generators can help me with naming people or characters, naming the agency is proving not so simple for me. Personally I was thinking a cool acronym would be neat, but I can't for the life of me come up with one. One of my friends has just recently suggested, "Covert Occult Activity Strike Team" or C.O.A.S.T.
  • As for what the agency is like and how they operate, I know a lot of people are probably going to first think of the SCP Foundation, but that's really not at all the vibe I'm going for. The vibe I'm going for is more somewhere between the B.P.R.D. from Hellboy and, "The Men In Black, except they use occult magic against creepy-pasta style supernatural things, instead of using sci-fi guns against aliens." The agency is working to protect people in general, not just protect the species as a whole in an ends justify the means fashion; so they don't kill people just to keep the secrecy intact, (though they would use memory-wiping magic to achieve that) and they definitely do not regularly sacrifice people just to experiment how the things they're up against operate. If given the choice between putting an extremely dangerous entity in a glorified jail cell, or just destroying it, they go for the latter.

• The foes: "Malignant supernatural entities or phenomenon" as the agency would officially/formally call them, but as the field agents might say, Things That Go "Bump" in the Night. It's a very catch-all discretion, as what the agency goes up against are quite varied and different from each other, seemingly coming from old folk tales and legends, various religious mythologies, and just straight up scary ideas come to life; sometimes these things even seem to be in contradiction with each other in their existence, such as there being entities that are seemingly demons of conflicting religions. So, while the agency knows much, they also know that they can never quite be certain what to expect from any incident they investigate or hostile that they have to bring down. The mission structure is going to be mainly be a kind of Monster of the Week style. Sometimes it's something intangible like a ghost, sometimes it's basically just a glorified monster, sometimes it's something more in between or different entirely. As long as its existence is seemingly impossible in some way via conventional science, it is within the responsibility of the agency; and if it thus far has been unable to be disposed by regular people, then that's where their field agents, AKA you guys, come in.
  • "Can I play as one of the baddies?" As a main player character, no. One of the player classes I'm planning kind of allows you to do this, but it still has to be an overall benign entity, not something that's actually evil. I'm open to the possibility of maybe letting people besides myself play as the "weekly monsters" that the teams are up against, but just for the length of those individual missions, not as an ongoing villain.

• The magic: My current idea of how the setting works is that yes while there is magic, it's not like typical RPG magic, and is instead much more ritual-based. (At least for the humans. Some of your foes get to use magic differently, because the world is unfair.) So when you want to make something impossible happen, you've got to draw geometric shapes on surfaces, place some candles and maybe some obnoxiously-specific items, then chant ominously for anywhere between a few minutes to a few hours, depending on exactly what you're doing; you can't just wiggle your fingers and shout a couple of words and set something on fire. While it's possible to create "magic items" via these rituals, they're also occult in nature rather than like video game items; you can make a necklace that helps ward off evil spirits, but you can't make a staff that shoots bolts of lightning. Also, not all people are capable of performing these rituals, and even among those that can, two people performing the exact same ritual are not necessarily going to have the same result, because the nature of the magic is finicky, and impossible for the agency to entirely quantify.

The classes

I'll try to keep these very short and summarized in this post, as it's already getting longer than I was originally intending for this thread. Currently so far I have four class ideas, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. I'm considering the names very work in progress for them, so any suggestions to those are very welcome; you can also recommend your own class ideas, of course.

• Witch/Warlock: The ones best at doing the magic rituals, and usually the most crucial against intangible foes like ghosts. Upside is their skill at the magic; downside is they stick out the most to their supernatural enemies, and are more often targeted.

• Null (Nullifier): These people actively repel the supernatural and magic just with their presence; perhaps the best suited to fight the physical monster kind of foes. Upside is magic used against them is weaker, if it works at all, and they make supernatural creatures close to them weaker too, letting a Null go toe to toe more easily; downside is that magic used to help them also doesn't work as well if at all, and they can't really help the rest of the team perform rituals.

• Empath: The ones with a very strong sixth sense, having the easiest time both locating and identifying your foes, and sometimes being able to do mild precognition or otherwise just know things they shouldn't have any way of knowing. Upside is as was just mentioned; downside is they are also more vulnerable to any sort of mental effects like auras of fear or magic hallucinations.

• Haunter: A Stand user The ones that are personally haunted in some way by a special, supernatural "friend"; what it is exactly and how it works is largely up to the player, as long as it's not too overpowered and acceptable by me. It could be a ghost, a guardian angel, a minor forgotten deity, or something else entirely; it just has to be specifically connected to the human character in some way, whether that's like a literal connection in that it can't go farther than a certain distance from them, or a more metaphorical connection like, "they just don't listen to anybody else." Also whatever it is would have to be able to remain incognito for missions where you would have to pose as regular civilians, whether that's through disguise or invisibility/intangibility or whatever. Upside is whatever their friend brings to the table; downside is that aside from their special friend, this person is basically just a regular human.

Other notes, I'm feeling a little uncertain about the Empath's downside. I don't intend any of the enemies to use straight up mind control against you, (because I know that having control of your character taken away is almost always not fun) but I wasn't sure what else their downside might be. I don't want them to be more resistant to those effects than normal, because that's part of what the Nulls do, and I didn't want that kind of overlap.

Edited by FirockFinion on Sep 17th 2021 at 9:47:31 AM

You are reading this.

Hm. I have interest but maybe the stand users (easier term to use) have the edge of diverse skills and faster usage of skills related to whatever their stand does. Like general categories of stand types if you will. Magic/physical/null/however you wanna do it. The cost though I don't know.

Also I have a class idea. A magic class that is focused on more attack vs defense. They can use magic much more faster vs other magic users and can do attack stuff like shoot a fireball or whatever. They can do it with simple gestures and little prep time. The cost is that they have trouble with more complex spells and their magic is like a glowstick in the dark obvious when used. Which attracts enemies much more easily. Of mundane AND supernatural. Their magic literally freaking glows when used.

Edited by sci300768 on Sep 5th 2021 at 11:48:44 AM

I have no idea what to put here, oh well!

@sci300768:

I'm probably just having a stupid moment, but I really am not sure what it is you're suggesting exactly.

If it's that the human of the pair in the stand user class should be like a jack of all trades, I don't really like that idea; that seems like it would make the class the, "why pick any other class" option. Besides, I like their current downside of the human of the pair being weak compared to the other classes.

If it's that the non-human of the pair should essentially have its own class picked from the other classes, I do kinda like that idea. It would make it simpler and probably more easy to determine whether they're acceptable if they have to fit within those archetypes, though I worry that may make them a bit restrictive to player creativity.

Hmm, though it does kinda run counter to what my original idea of magic usage in the setting is like, I actually do think this class idea could work. What I'd probably do though is not change this class' downside, but instead change the Witch/Warlock class' downside to something different; I don't think I'd want the two classes to effectively have the same downside.

You are reading this.

Let me translate: If the stand does magic things, then the stand user does magic things more easily. Think of it as a boost. But not a perfect replacement for like being a witch/warlock. IF applicable. If the stand does not fall under any category of the other classes (in terms of what it does), then they are more well rounded.

And so on. Basically it encourages the user to use skills/magic/what have you that complements the stand attack/thing it does.

Edited by sci300768 on Sep 6th 2021 at 1:24:51 AM

I have no idea what to put here, oh well!

@sci300768: I understand now then. That seems like a bit too much of a boost to the not!Stand user class to me. I'd already consider it a potent class to choose even with the downside I gave it, because anyone who picks it basically gets two characters to control, and one of those characters is a supernatural entity or creature.

What you're suggesting is basically just reducing the downside that I imposed. I'd want to put an additional downside on the class to even consider that. It makes the creation of a character with that class more complicated, if the player has to be specifying both what powers the supernatural character has, and what powers the human character has; it was already the most complicated class in terms of character creation here, in my opinion, since it involves making two characters.

So all in all, personally at this moment, I don't think that would really work well.

Edited by FirockFinion on Sep 6th 2021 at 3:38:56 AM

You are reading this.

As I said, I'm already interested but here are a few suggestions.

• Like the name of C.O.A.S.T, so I suggest you go with that.
• I feel like one of the nicknames for the supernatural creatures that the agents use will simply be called "Bumps", tho I'm mainly suggesting that since Things That Go "Bump" in the Night is kinda a mouthful to type.
• For an additional downside for Empaths, they can get overwhelmed by the Bumps' more powerful emotions (such as rage and hatred) and may go somewhat nuts over it, check out the A Mind Is a Terrible Thing to Read page for reference.
• Additional downside for the Stand User would be that using the Stand would take up energy meaning that at one point, the Stand won't work as well and the User would need to rest. Take up too much energy and the User would get severely hurt, possibly dying from it as well.
• I'm fine with the other classes' names, though for the witch one, perhaps Magus, Arcane or Thaumaturists?
• If the magic system needs a name, then it could be called Arcana or Thaumaturgy.
• The name for the RP could use C.O.A.S.T's name if you want.
• For the time setting, perhaps you can go for the early-mid 2010s.

Victor of HGS S320 | "There's rosemary, that's for remembrance. Pray you, love, remember."

If you need other disadvantages for the "stand-user" class, maybe have them be beholden to various degrees to their supernatural hanger on, creating conflicts of interest down the line. This can range from full on possesion to their guardian angel being a bit uncooperative and moody. One thing that I'm unclear on is how the monsters relate to folklore and religion. Are they directly brought into being by local beliefs or are local beliefs merely influenced by their presence? I personally think it would be better to have the latter, since it makes monsters much less scary if they all have an easily explicable common origin, especially when that origin makes them fundamentally familiar to the human psyche.

I would like to know how well C.O.A.S.T understands the supernatural. Is it like the SCP foundation where they have barely enough understanding to keep things under wraps with a few fancy tricks, or is it more like the G.O.C of the same setting where they have a well codified and systematic understanding of the supernatural even if they don't get everything? Again, I would prefer the latter option personally since the former leans a bit too much into cosmic horror.

Another suggestion is to have some other branches of government which use the supernatural for things like espionage. It's pretty much inevitable that they would exploit something like magic for their own benefit. This goes for corporations as well, I can see stuff like this being pretty darn profitable.

Finally I would like to inquire where magic users learn their art, do they join some other government agency then get funneled into C.O.A.S.T to learn magic or are there groups of wizards that the government recruits from?

Edited by bobbitwormhobbitwyrm on Sep 6th 2021 at 1:59:07 PM

Forewarning, not likely that I would join this game myself but I would like to offer my input all the same:

• Setting: I don't have much to offer here since it seems to be an fairly standard Urban Fantasy setting, similar to say World of Darkness if things weren't so hopelessly against humanity. Agree with the poster above me, hopefully the intent is that COAST, and the players by extension, already have the tools and resources to fight back in place since it seems that magic as a whole seems offensively limited. Warlocks can't make weapons by what is stated so far and even Nulls would have to rely on guns in physical encounters. This is only a problem in relative relation to how much time is going to violent conflict and how much ability the classes will have to engage in that (ie if Warlocks can ritual cast a dart of pure force or the like and if the Null effect is strong enough to make Slenderman weak to a Glock). I would say that the now and here would probably be better fit than 2000s. The interest in the occult and mysticism today is booming, even if that interest is surface level. C.O.A.S.T is a fine man.

• Classes:
  • Empath: Not to be rude to CG 920 above but I would suggest not adding that weakness to Empath since right now I would define that class as being the most under designed and in that regard it does not need a nerf. This doesn't mean they're weak in what they do but what they do isn't very interactive. The two above allow them allow them to interact with the game world in special ways (warping reality via the use of rituals and being the Hunter of beasts) and the one below doesn't require much explanation on how it enriches the game world. Empath at the moment mainly seems to lead the other three classes to their shit to do and then doesn't have much else going on. This won't be as big of a problem if combat is less than half of the game and like they fight a lot of monsters that aren't figured out like vampires and werewolves but still. You could rework this into a Psychic class and make it about two: utility (locating and sensing the identity of a monster as well forms of information gain, including telepathy even) and a minor but universal help in combat (they bridge the divide between close range but monoskilled Nulls and the diverse but extremely ranged Warlocks via being able to throw shit with their minds). That would then make their downside punch a bit more because if your friend thinks you're a zombie then you risk getting pelted by a trashcan, compared to before where they would just punch you or something.
  • Warlock and Null: Seem fairly balanced.
  • Haunter: Oh boy. I agree with Sci here that making these fit into the above classes would make the summon easier to build and fit into interactions. If you want to nerf it, go for a trade. The user loses something by controlling a supernatural creature and this can be physical in nature (blindness, insensitivity to pain, wheelchair bound, etc) or mental (a user of angel can't lie for example). You can also say that the human user suffers the downside of the Haunts class, so if they have a Null Haunt then they can't be healed easily by the Warlock or they attract supernatural attention even when they aren't using their Haunt.
  • Fifth Class: It seems good to have another class on the list to round out the options but I'm not quite sure what to suggest adding.

Edited by LightToAll on Sep 6th 2021 at 5:55:59 AM

I was having a brainstorming discussion with someone over voice chat about the game ideas, and how some new class ideas were overlapping with existing ones, then I had a light-bulb thought moment about a possible reworking of the classes. I'll get to that later, but first to respond to pertinent things people have brought up.

Also, someone else I chatted with suggested the possible name for the agency: "Bureau of Rituals, Occultism, Oddities and Monsters" or B.R.O.O.M.

---

@Cutegirl920fire:

Ooh, I really like that. I was also thinking of maybe "Spooks" as a shorthand that some field agents might use.

I wouldn't want the empath to be brought low by every single enemy they go up against, especially given the other feedback. My intention was more that if a Bump has a supernatural effect on people's mental state, it hits empaths harder. There could certainly be a bit of A Mind Is a Terrible Thing to Read as well, but not as a serious problem I think, because that would be happening every single mission in that case.

That doesn't really fit with what I meant the class to be. They aren't literally a JoJo Stand User; I used that as a reference because it's a quick to understand, somewhat-similar idea. The person here is not literally summoning forth the friendly Bump from themselves, (at least not necessarily) it's usually just hanging around with them.

Well, as I said I don't have my heart set on anything specific so I suppose I wouldn't mind changing it, but I would wonder why you'd prefer a different name?

While again I don't have my heart set on anything, I also don't think it needs a special name, especially not with my current mental image of the agency; they wouldn't see the need to use especially flowery or complicated language when "magic" is a perfectly fine word for it. They might have a specification between the powerful but slow ritual based magic, and the quick but simple and weaker magic, but even for that I would imagine it as something as simple as, "ritual magic" and "cast magic".

Why do you suggest that particular time period?

---

@bobbitwormhobbitwyrm:

That wouldn't really fit with certain ideas I've had of what the class could be; like if someone's friendly Bump is the ghost of a close friend of theirs who died. A Bump like that wouldn't later force them to be beholden in some way if they're a close friend.

Besides, I couldn't really enforce that without possibly going down the, "the GM takes control of your character temporarily" route, which I've said before, I don't want to do because that's almost always not fun.

The short answer is "both." As with the magic and by extension the Bumps being impossible to completely quantify, some of them seem to have been brought into existence by folklore or rumors, while others clearly came first, and others came first but were then changed in some way by spread rumors. There's no universal explanation to them, much to the agency's frustration.

Besides, for the player characters it doesn't really matter. The Bumps are here and causing problems, and your job as field agents is to stop them; how exactly the Bumps came to be isn't relevant in your position.

Of the two, definitely more like the G.O.C., but again things in this universe simply defy working under any clear set of rules, so the best the agency can do is general categories and guidelines.

Um, I think you missed the part where the supernatural is kept secret from the rest of the population, Men In Black style.

Yes the agency isn't worldwide and other countries have their own answers for the Bumps and supernatural problems, but for the most part they too keep it all under wraps. Magic espionage probably has happened, yes, but I doubt it would be widespread when each country would be more focused on their own supernatural problems instead of causing more for others. In either case, it wouldn't really come up in the RP.

As for corporations, if a corporation started using something supernatural for profit, the agency would come in, put a stop to it, and wipe the memories of those involved so they don't remember the supernatural anymore. They wouldn't stand for something like that happening when it's both a huge risk of the secret getting out, and probably an enormous danger to human life as well.

Since that gets into player character back stories, it can be flexible. For the most part they would hone their magic through training with the agency, as the process between initial recruitment and actual deployment to field missions. How the person found out that they could do magic, and what they might have done with it before the agency found them would be mostly up to the player, within reason.

There definitely isn't any sort of like Hogwarts going on though, and most of the people who can do magic probably find out incidentally.

---

@Light To All

Uh, okay then. I find it odd to do that if you don't intend to join, but the feedback is appreciated regardless.

Yes they already have tools and resources; it hasn't come up much on my part because the intention is that the Bumps are so wildly varied and unpredictable that what works on one is not going to work against all of them. You could use a magic charm to keep an angry ghost at bay that completely ignores physical weapons, while performing some ritual to banish it; then on another mission, a malicious skinwalker laughs at your silly little charms and tries to rip your face off until someone decapitates it.

They can't make your standard RPG enchanted fire sword, no, but they can make functional "weapons" against certain kinds of spooks, like the aforementioned magic warding charm.

My intention is that Nulls could pick from a variety of melee or ranged weapons, especially since some Bumps might specifically require a form of dispatching like decapitation, which is hard to do with most guns. Weapons and projectiles coated in silver and/or salts is probably going to be the kind of flavor they'll be doing. Letting the player pick lets them have more flexibility and creativity for their character creation. (Also obviously other classes can have these weapons too; it's not like the Nulls get exclusive dibs on them. Nulls just also have an inherent defensive advantage.)

Besides, if the Bumps could be taken down by any schmuck with a gun then there wouldn't be a need for the agency's intervention, except a cleanup team covering it up.

Depends on the Bump and thus varies from mission to mission. A mission could be like an exorcism or like hunting a dangerous animal in the woods.

It's that plus the nature of the Bumps being unpredictable that lets me be creative and varied in my missions while the player characters can never quite be certain of what to expect.

Well, I think you might have missed over the part where the Empaths also can do some level of precognition, but otherwise you are correct I think. That along with the light-bulb moment I had before is leading to a reworking of the Empaths especially.

I don't think I'll be going with the psychic idea thing as much, though.

Well, I did say I liked that idea before, but if I go with that light-bulb moment idea I mentioned before, that actually wouldn't really work.

As before, it's not like it's literally a JoJo Stand, and it's not necessarily literally soul-bound to the human character in some fashion. It could be like that, but it could also be that it just likes hanging around that person for some reason, and won't go away because it doesn't want to.

Like with my thoughts above on the weapons for the Nulls, I want it to be fairly open and flexible to the player creating the character(s), as long as it's within reason.

---

So, the lightbulb moment idea I had during the brainstorm is like this: Since some class ideas have some overlap, why not make it so that it's a system of sub classes within main classes. Right now my thoughts is that it's still the four main classes, now with each having two sub classes. The sub classes share the same downsides, and their upsides function in mostly the same kind of purpose but in different ways.

For the witch/warlock or renamed magic class, the first is just like how they currently are. The other subclass is the new class idea from Sci, that can cast spells quickly and easily without needing prep time, but their magic is weaker and they can't do complicated things with it. So both have the downside of sticking out more to Bumps, because of their magical ability. (I'd also be adding that they can't use their magic to replicate the effects of any other class, because that would then defeat the point of picking any class besides them.)

For the Nulls, one is a concentrated Null that is completely immune to the direct effects of any magic, but the effect is only on themselves. The other is a diluted Null that weakens but doesn't completely cancel out magic, however has it as an aura effect within a certain range of themselves. Again both sharing the downside that their ability does not discriminate in magic, having the same effect against any kind of beneficial magic as well as harmful magic. (Also technically both could still be hurt by magic by like, something uses magic to fling a heavy object into them, so it still hurts them because of momentum.)

Empaths would be getting kind of split and buffed. The first subclass is like a spiritual medium; they still do the locating and identifying Bumps thing, along with telling what the Bump's emotions are like, and additionally they can mentally "push back" on Bumps, and try to forcefully change the Bump's current emotional state, though usually only momentarily; it could be used to create opportunistic openings for various attacks at the very least. The other subclass of Empaths is under my current placeholder name of "Precog", having the ability to sort of see the future, at least in vague ways; they have dreams of warning of upcoming events, (by way of me the GM giving them hints before each mission) and even awake they get feelings and notions of what's just about to happen, letting them react to things lot better than anyone else. Then they both, for reasons unclear, are hit harder by Bumps that utilize mental effects. EDIT: I had another idea. Instead of "Empath", this class would be called "Medium." The first sub class being a, "Spiritual Medium" while the second is a, "Temporal Medium."

Lastly the "Haunter", (I'm thinking I'll rename them, but I'm not sure yet to what.) the first subclass is just like how they currently are, having one big/strong friendly Bump with them. The other subclass simply instead has a whole pack of small/weak friendly Bumps with them. Both with the downside of otherwise being basically just normal humans.

Edited by FirockFinion on Sep 7th 2021 at 12:43:54 PM

You are reading this.

I have a couple of alternative name for hunter. Something like Shaman, Channeler, Summoner, Or really out there Caller. It really depends on what you want. Or depending on the character background they could use one of the names. Also Im really liking the game idea.

They can't for the life of them understand why nobody liked being ruled by a group of manic depressive demigods - 4chan

Just making a post to say that the real signup is now finally live; my apologies for the long delay. Here is a link.

You are reading this.