Fire Emblem Three Houses (Spoiler Thread)

Well Sothis didn't create the planet as her followers and religion claims. So food for thought. She's an alien and is powerful enough to restore the planet but she isn't a God in the sense of what the Church claims.

The book of Seiros specifically states she's omnipotent and THE creator God, but she only created the Nabateans, and there are humans that are outside her creation.

So one could be an atheist in this setting because a God as defined by the Church of Seiros doesn't exist. One can be religious yes, but one can also be atheist considering the lore. Makes sense to me.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 15th 2024 at 11:54:30 PM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Given their lack of presence in Fódlan due to Sothis being dead for +1000 years, I think being atheist in Fódlan makes a lot more sense compared to other settings like Valentia and even Elyos where they're tangible entities that do concrete things in their lands, unlike Fódlan which relies on the Church's influence to preserve Sothis' reputation as a god.

Edited by Blackress on Apr 15th 2024 at 9:12:16 AM

Sothis does still have a physical presence in the world even after all those years. Said presence is just a part of her corpse locked away in a tomb in the form of the Sword of the Creator. It's just that not a lot of people know that said Sword is actually a part of the Creator's body.

Which makes me wonder if the Slitherers ever used other parts of her body to make weapons, or they just pulled out the parts necessary for the Sword of the Creator and left the rest to rot. Or it could just be a case of "Only the Sword of the Creator and her Creststone is important, what happened to the rest of Sothis is not."

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 15th 2024 at 9:17:33 AM

Yeah, Duma and Mila are present and interact with their followers while Sothis is just chilling in Byleth's head.

At the very least, in that setting Naga states neither Grima nor she are Gods so there has to be something more there.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

I wouldn't use Archanea cosmology to make any conclusions about Fodlan cosmology, as it's pretty clear that the different settings are running on different rules.

And even then, the general belief is that said coffin hosts Seiros' bones rather than Sothis'.

Edited by Blackress on Apr 15th 2024 at 9:24:34 AM

Yeah, that's why I said there in the second line because I was referring to that specific cosmology, because if Naga and Grima aren't Gods by Naga's own definition, then what does that make Duma and Mila?

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 16th 2024 at 12:26:15 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

We do know that Duma and Naga have likely different definitions of what constitutes as a "god." Duma at the very least seems to see gods as beings that are meant to guide humanity, and it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't quite care about the whole "powers of making and unmaking" thing. I'm not even sure if Archanea has anything like a "god species," or if Naga is just essentially saying that humans calling her a god is basically them having way too high expectations of her and other Divine Dragons.

Which does make me curious about how Naga would view Anankos and Sothis in that regard, given that both of them very much have the "power of making."

This is slightly going out of Fire Emblem cosmology, but Duma and Mila could definitely still be considered kami. A lot of people know that "kami" can mean "god," but it can also be used to refer to a whole bunch of other spiritual beings. Japanese mythology definitely has its share of dragon gods.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 15th 2024 at 9:48:44 AM

So combining your last paragraph with Three Houses, are there any Kami who are said to have been from space?

We know Sothis is from space and the story shared by that one NPC kid implies that Sothis living in a blue star is part of Church of Seiros scripture.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Apr 16th 2024 at 12:49:02 AM

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Not Kami specifically, but the Lovecraft mythos.

There’s also as has been mentioned previously the concept of a Marebito. I know the word cause it was part of the Devil Summoner Mangas title.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Apr 15th 2024 at 9:55:46 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.

Off the top of my head, Amatsu-Mikaboshi is probably one, given he's supposed to be a god of stars. I don't know if they count as kami, but the Tale of the Bamboo Cutter also features "heavenly beings" that live on the moon, with Kaguyahime being one of them.

I suppose if you consider Takamagahara, the "heavens" of Japanese mythology, to not be of the Earth, then some of the gods there (like the Kotoamatsukami) could possibly be considered celestial gods as well.

As I said before, Sothis is what some would call a "marebito," a spiritual or divine being who visits the Earth from the "other world" and brings gifts of wisdom, spiritual knowledge, and happiness. She's actually a pretty straightforward portrayal of a marebito, especially since a lot of works tend to have a less rosy view of the concept; see Final Fantasy VII and its marebito, Jenova, as an example.

That one YouTube video about why you end up fighting gods in JRPG so many times basically makes the point that a lot of the gods in those games are essentially a more cynical take on the marebito concept.

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EDIT: Just saw that OmegaRadiance posted about marebito shortly before I posted this. But yeah, Sothis is pretty much a marebito that's played completely straight. She came from afar and granted all sorts of knowledge to the people of the world, and any drawbacks from her gifts came from humans abusing them.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 15th 2024 at 10:06:00 AM

Sothis' portrayal as a marebito is fascinating because the abuse of her powers/blessings/knowledge comes from things she did share with humanity (the technology Agarthans have) and stuff she never intended to gift yet didn't stop the Agarthans from discovering on their own anyways (ie. Crests and the Hero Relics through harvesting dragon bodies of her kin), being the latter the main reason why Rhea sees keeping Fódlan's technological progress in check as a good thing.

Edited by Blackress on Apr 15th 2024 at 10:10:08 AM

If anything, Sothis playing the marebito concept pretty straight is something I feel is interesting, given a lot of media portray marebito a bit more cynically.

Jenova is a pretty standard case of "marebito that actually ends up being a poison to the world," with her cells being able to grant various benefits to people, but can also corrupt them into monsters. Elden Ring also has a more cynical take on marebito via (putting in spoilers just in case) Queen Marika; the Japanese name for her race is even "Marebito" (it's "Numen" in the localization). Heck, the latest Final Fantasy game also gives us a cynical take with Ultima, who's a being form beyond that granted various gifts to humanity, but said gifts were a poisoned chalice.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 15th 2024 at 10:24:56 AM

I wish this game came with a map and an encyclopedia.

Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.

Now that I think about it, Sothis wouldn't be the first time that the Fire Emblem series played with the marebito concept. Though Duma and Mila didn't come to Valentia from a different world (more like a different continent), they still use the trope of "divine strangers from afar who gave gifts to humanity." They are also a bit of a cynical take, given that their gifts were causing some major issues.

They're not Jenova levels of bad marebito-ness, but the story does show that their good intentions still led to some not-so-good outcomes.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 15th 2024 at 10:27:26 AM

Well, problem there is the same problem where everyone is eternally in the dark because the absolute truth is never revealed, thanks to Rhea's shenanigans. So, yes, the Goddess actually exists, has time powers, and all the students can marry them. But the majority of them sure as hell aren't even going to suspect they just married a goddess. At the end of the day, people are expected to believe exactly what Rhea says, without proof or question. After spending my entire youth in Catholic schools, and seeing what kind of ugly as hell shit that kind of blind faith leads to, I'm very inclined to sympathize with Claude's view.

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

I always felt Edelgard was written really weirdly in that particular interaction. "People are strong because they struggle and being strong is good" isn't really an outlook she has elsewhere.

Hell, Edelgard did suffer horribly and got immense power as a result of it and she certainly doesn't see that as something anyone else should go through.

You can't even say "Well it's Fallen Edelgard anyway" since Fallen Edelgard's level 40 dialogue is probably her most clear and concise summation of her philosophy you can find.

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Back to Sothis...

I mean if Sothis is indeed a Marebito intentionally or not I'd still take it as a "Cynical Take" as her presence and actions ultimately still led to disaster.

I can't really say it's meant as The World Is Not Ready though since it's ultimately backstory that the games don't focus on. And Sothis herself is missing so much of her memory we can't really fairly use her incarnation as a gauge for what she was like back then... Either "Bratty throne dweller" or "Pissed off retributor" moods.

Bleye knows Sabers.

Regarding Edelgard's line and some stuff in FE 3 Houses, I think sometimes there are just elements or lines that just don't mesh well with other aspect of characterization or worldbuilding.

It might be because sometimes different writers handle different parts of the game. For example in Fates, supports were handled by different writers than the main story which is why sometimes characters will act counter to their established characterization.

Alternatively, I think sometimes writers will just put stuff in that sounds or looks cool without thinking about what it means. It's like how Evangelion has a lot of Christian symbolism and iconography. Some of it actually makes sense and is really cool, but the assistant director (Kazuya Tsurumaki) of the anime also admitted to added stuff just because it looked cool.

I think it's fair to accept it as part of the character/world or ignore it freely.

Edited by Freshwater on Apr 15th 2024 at 3:33:14 AM

This is like literally the opposite of what happens in the actual dialogue.

Leonie, assuming Claude to be a fellow believer, makes a religious statement that includes him. Claude objects that he doesn't follow the Goddess. Leonie disapproves of Claude's lack of faith in the Goddess, prompting Claude to defend his beliefs. This results in an argument between the two that ends in Claude backing down, but Leonie assuring him that she's okay with people having different beliefs and that she can understand his point of view.

Hmm. It appears my memory wasn't entirely accurate, though I don't think I'd characterize that as Leonie getting the upper hand.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.

Edelgard: Oh come on, if I’m really as evil as you say then let Sothis strike me down where I stand.

"Ruptured Heaven crits for 0 damage"

Edelgard: Ha! Nice try jackass. Next time give it your A-game.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Funnily enough, I don't think I ever used Ruptured Heaven against Edelgard...because I never needed to. Byleth would just absolutely tear Edelgard apart with her ordinary attacks, and Edelgard wasn't worth the extra durability cost.

You can probably tell I'm the kind of player who never really used any of the Heroes' Relics Combat Arts until the very last chapter, because I don't really like using up their durability. Though now that I think about it, I don't think I used Combat Arts against her at the end of Azure Moon either...because I didn't need to.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Apr 16th 2024 at 10:23:32 AM

Heroes Relics generally aren't even that useful. For the most part, Iron+/Steel+/Silver+ with doubling or combat arts will just kill everything. So it's like, okay, I could use a Relic and overkill my target by 40+ damage at great monetary cost, but why? The only ones I use on a regular-ish basis are Lance of Ruin or Luin with Knightneeler to safely annihilate the Death Knight.

FE: New Mystery Fresh Cart Lunatic 7PM PT Sun, Mon, Fri; Expert Unicorn Overlord 7PM PT Wed, Thurs: http://www.twitch.tv/kuroitsubasatenshi

Three Houses isn't a terribly difficult game.

Here's fanart of Hubert eating birthday cake.

Bleye knows Sabers.

Lysithea: You planning on sharing that, big brother?

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.