Watchmen (HBO)

Mind you even I have my doubts about their human rights but it sets a bad precedent.

I think the show might have been trying to make it deliberately ambiguous (there's also LG telling him about how there's no need to maintain the civil rights of terrorists, which is very Patriot Act-esque) but it didn't come across that way to me. It seems like something to properly conclude after a few episodes.

Yeah, I think the show is setting up the fact that the good guys (the police) are using bad tactics to fight against worse tactics from the Seventh Kavalry. But that doesn't mean they aren't still bad. I'm willing to bet that Laurie Blake is going to be the one investigating Judd Crawford's murder and she's going to bring in a different perspective, having been an actual vigilante herself.

I found the first episode to be extremely well down, with some very interesting world building (Vietnam being a state, the "Redfordations," the squidfall, the masked police officers), while also introducing a lot of characters with their individual quirks (Looking Glass not understanding sarcasm, Sister Night being extremely vigilant in stopping the Seventh Kavalry, Judd being pretty reckless). There wasn't enough yet for us to understand them completely, but later episodes will probably fill in the blanks.

I was totally shocked when Judd died, because I thought he would be a main character, but I guess he's the Comedian of the show: his murder will drive the rest of the season.

Oh and that technology where the police have to get permission before their guns are unlocked? We should totally have that in real life.

Looking Glass is, incidentally, the character that stood out the most to me, partially due that nifty mask, man.

Also, Tim Blake Nelson is always great.

Shit I wanna watch this but I don't got HBOHD.

Do you have Amazon Prime Video? I get HBO through that and watch it on my Roku.

The director of the pilot gave an interview about filming the opening sequence, the 1921 Tulsa race riots. Interestingly, Damon Lindelof got the idea for it after reading Ta-Nehisi Coates' "The Case for Reparations" and realizing that he had never heard of it before then.

Also, Cheo Hodari Coker (the former showrunner for Luke Cage) makes a really good point:

Edited by alliterator on Oct 20th 2019 at 10:29:13 AM

Huh let me check that.

....... Okay I can but first I'd have to get HBO on Prime which I am currently unable to do.

And the free trial only lasts for a week.

Yeah, you have to pay for it unfortunately. It's about 14 bucks a month.

I am interested in watching this show. I was from the beginning, despite all the (justified) unwillingness from a significant portion of people. But first, I would like to start with the 2009 film first to heat up.

Oh, and regarding your problems in watching this show, there are always going to be other ways other than TV and streaming services, but you may not gonna like it (the way I'm practicing)...

Edited by Andrei_Bondoc on Oct 21st 2019 at 10:20:32 PM

Thank you for your post.

I know the movie has a different ending than the graphic novel, but I really wanted to see the film for quite some time. I think I'm going to like the movie and the show both. But first the movie because I want to heat up for the series. To prepare myself to have at least some understanding, enjoyment and to have fun. Understand?

> Oh and that technology where the police have to get permission before their guns are unlocked? We should totally have that in real life.

My first thought reading that was "Overrides would quickly make that pointless" it's like how helmet cams/Dash cams are supposed to be on but often end up being turned off somehow

But if they have to get permission from someone at the station, that wouldn't happen. It's not like the cops themselves can unlock the gun (while cops themselves can turn off body cams).

Supposing there's no one at the station and the Cop needs to use his gun immediately,if he can't activate it he's sighing his own death sentence (so it would make sense if there was some sort of emergency override,it's a practical failsafe)

The Cop could also use a regular firearm and claim they never shot anyone as they never called the station,and someone at the station would confirm it.

Be practical about this, cops in their line of work need a firearm,having someone else unlock is something they can't afford if them or someone else's life is in on the line,taking away or limiting how their firearms work is not a great solution

The real solution is to make requirements to be a police officer stricter so you can weed out the trigger happy ones,which is part of the problem,give them some responsibility and a firearm and they're more likely to use the gun

But if there was an "emergency override" it would defy the point as it would just be invoked all the time and the officer at the station would be pointless. The release by the officer IS the emergency override, the reason it didn't work this time is the fact that Panda seems kind of a jerk.

Also, it looked like there was a malfunction in the release, so that it didn't work the first two times and was only released on the third.

Also true. Though given his attitude later on when the cops were authorised to use guns I'm wondering how "accidental" it actually was...

I mean, Panda didn't seem like a bad guy, he just seemed like someone whose job it was was to make sure that everybody stuck by the rules.

Maybe, but the cop who got shot was definitely not pleased to find out Panda was the arms release officer and his (Panda's) own little reaction to Judd authorising firearms makes me feel there's a bit more to his attitude than just Bothering by the Book. But I could be over reading it this early.

Another episode, another plot development and the show seems to be finding its footing more firmly. Looking Glass cements himself as my favorite character, though Will is also getting there.

One thing I'm not a fan of so far is Ozymandias's characterization here as a more flippant sociopath. I felt in the graphic novel he was more of a quiet and reserved man not prone to these random acts of cruelty his show self seems to have ( like horribly burning alive one of his men solely for his own enjoyment), and always unfailingly polite, with his (possible) sociopathy and detachment from the human race more shimmering under the surface.

Yeah Ozymandius was always willing to kill and commit horrific acts if he felt they were necessary but not For the Evulz. But I have a feeling there's more going on with him than we know so far.

The cinematography remains top-notch (the way Laurie's joke was contrasted with the events was great) but I don't like how this show characterized either Veidt or Laurie now who for some reason also became a raging asshole in this meantime.

She wasn't exactly a dainty flower in the original but I found her very overbearing this time around. Plus sleeping with your direct subordinate who's also seemingly some 20 years younger is anti-ethical.

The plot still intrigues me to a great extent but the character decisions are killing a lot of my steam for this.

Looking Glass remains the absolute scene-stealer.

So half the episodes are dedicated to the ongoing Seventh Column mystery and the other half are to whatever wacky thing Ozymandias is up to. At least they confirmed he is Ozymandias and wherever he is, he’s not there of his own free will.

Also comic accurate outfit vs the movie’s body armor.

". I felt in the graphic novel he was more of a quiet and reserved man not prone to these random acts of cruelty"

He did kill is Vietnamese man servants while monologing about is story and why he chose ozymandias...even when by that point they were dead, so not much about him do that if fuel is sense of excentricity.

After all Ozymandias can be see as "in a world without superman, lex would try to become one"

But that was still about the fact he had to keep the number of people who knew about his plan down to a minimum and he didn't exactly seethe with sadism or gloat over their bodies as he did it. It's a far cry from this Ozymandias incinerating a man alive solely for his own amusement and later stomping on the corpse of another man he killed while frustratingly screaming "fuck!".

For me what always was interesting about Ozymandias in the comic is that he's drawn (and acts) like a gentle, dignified soul most of the time, but he's still a unrepentant mass-murderer and you get a sense he legitimately believes this is the only way to save humanity. It's why his famous "I did it! I did it!" is amidst tears of joy and relief that he has actually saved humanity. It's a interesting dissonance between his horrifying actions and his seemingly heroic personality, because it's a sort of sideways deconstruction of the Superman archetype as well, in that Ozymandias (along similar lines to Doctor Manhattan) operates on a different level to mankind and thus cannot actually relate with humans on a individual scale, merely on a larger, conceptual one.

The Zack Snyder adaptation played Ozy as more overtly cold and sociopathic and still had him as less overtly cruel and more detached.

In the show he just seems like a extravagant cranky old man with murderous tendencies.