Fate/Apocrypha

Lark: If you read that conversation, you'll see that I specifically said that Kiritsugu was not a nihilist. Someone else said that. And I didn't defend the million is a statistic comment. So don't use those when trying to undermine my position.

And the thing about him going soft by not blowing up the hotel is from the novels. He would have normally just killed everyone because it's .000001% more assured to kill Kayneth since that way there's no risk of him figuring it out ahead of time. And then it didn't work anyway. Or only partially worked since it at least took out Kayneth's base.

If you read that conversation, you'll see I said he was misrepresented in this thread. And lo, he was misrepresented in this thread. I never said you were the one misrepresenting him, did I?

No, but the implication I got from your statement was 'Two other comments about Kiritsugu were nonsense, therefore the third comment is nonsense too.' If that wasn't your intention, I don't think you presented your argument very well.

But fine, that doesn't matter. Either way, your point about the hotel is invalid.

edited 3rd Jan '18 10:17:06 AM by Arha

So then it's Adaptational Heroism? Because nothing presented in the anime itself (which is what we're primarily discussing) indicates that.

That said, I genuinely don't understand your point. I made a blanket statement that Kiritsugu gets misrepresented in this thread. I cited examples. The fact the misrepresentation comes from multiple people furthers my point, not weakens it.

But at this point our bickering is getting entirely off-topic. /Zero was only relevant when I was using it to compare to /Apocrypha. Now you're just plain discussing it and we're in danger of getting thumped.

So to keep /Zero discussion going... KAIRI VS. KIRITSUGU: WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT?!?

edited 3rd Jan '18 11:01:04 AM by Larkmarn

Same, he didn't seem worried at all.

That doesn't further your point. You just said that other people were wrong, therefore I'm probably wrong too.

But okay, I'll leave it at that.

Season 2 is out on Netflix. I'm guessing everyone already watched it months ago, but there it is.

I just finished season 1, haven't started 2 yet. I did like it, but it felt too much like one long battle where not much happened. And the large number of characters means that people disappear for several episodes before popping up again unexpectedly.

Like I said, I did enjoy it, but it really does suffer from character overload. I mean, there are more main characters than there are episodes in the first season.

It’s a bloated cast but some of the characters are the high point of Apocrypha

Not the main character though.

Fate/Apocrypha was a mess.

Let's start with the huge cast. Given the context that there are at least 7 masters and servants on both sides (Red faction and Black faction), there would be a minimum of 28 characters that gets involved in the main story. Then, there’s both Rulers; Jeanne D'arc who serves as the mediator of the Grail War and Shiroe Kotomine who later on becomes the Big Bad. With 25 episodes, the obvious issue is that the show didn't have enough time to spotlight all the characters. What made it worse is that most of the characters aren't interesting by shows end. The number of decent characters like Kairi, Mordred, and Astolfo are vastly outnumbered by the dull and the dreck.

And one of its dullest characters is the main protagonist, Sieg. Compared to the other characters, he gets a lot of spotlight as he learns about himself, the world, and begins to act on his own morals. However, they are generic to the core and really don’t bring interest in terms of storytelling like Kiritsugu and Shirou Emiya's did. The few times he shines is through character interactions with others, but that's not enough to redeem him.

The fights are probably the most hit and miss aspect. Sometimes the fights look terrible and have bad choreography. Other times the fights are pretty well animated. Basically it comes down to how much of a fight involves melee attacks versus the flashier magic attacks.

The one uncritical bit of praise I can give is the OST.

Fate/Apocrypha could have been salvaged, but I feel like it would require a lot of crap getting cut. Crap the writer of the anime ended up liking.

It should be noted that it was originally going to be a MMORPG, hence the large cast.

I feel like that would fix so much if it stayed an MMO.

People seem to like Narita’s cast

Who did you like as characters beyond the obvious?

Narita likes to toss a bunch of characters into a hot pot and have them bounce off each other. And as a result he generally tends to not kill his characters.

From the Black faction I dug Chiron, Avicebron, and Fiore. Chiron had good relationship with his master and Achilles on top of his genuine niceness and honest wish, Fiore for being a crippled Doctor Octopus, and Avicebron containing the tradition of Casters fucking with the Grail War in fairly entertaining ways.

The Red Faction also had Shakespeare, whom I found a genuine delight with his every appearance.

Narita wrote bad characters though. FSF sucks.

From what I read every Master & Servant in FSF is distinct & their own character with their own unique goals & aspirations.

So it feels like genuinely chaos from having all these diverse individuals bounce around each other in an actually epic war.

I actually liked FSF characters. Especially Saber, he's my favorite so far. Although I feel throwing even more characters into the mix when we already had the standard Master-Servant set was a bit much... Sygma was fine though.

@vicarious Who is "the obvious" supposed to be?

From the Narita cast I like mainly Flat, Harli, Richard and Faldeus. Assassin, Sigma and the Prelatis are nice too. Now I just noticed I tend to like the Narita Masters much more than the Servants.

Kairi, Mordred probably

edited 9th Mar '18 6:59:26 PM by Nouct

The holy trinity of fun characters ie Astolfo, Mordred and Kairi

Legit though, the Kairi/Mordred dynamic is the most well thought out character relationship that Higashide tried.

I would expect people to like Achilles. But yes, only true patricians can appreciate the glory of Karna

Ya know I like Achilles but I felt he was a bit too chummy.

Achilles is usually a bit of a downer.

Sure. But One Punch Man was swell.

He’s a cocky shit which is pretty fitting

Did he ever mention his bro Pat?

Cause I like stopped watching when the Jack arc ended cause I got fed up with the show.

No

He’s more focused on Chiron and Atalanta for key relationships

You missed out on episode 22, that was some good character shit