Mr. Clueless
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, Super Dragon Ball Z got around that by giving her the Bansho Fan.
Super Dragonball Z pulled very heavily from the Fortune Furnace filler arc, yeah, in addition to basically giving her all the mystical artifacts and weapons featured in Dragonball regardless of whether she actually used them.
The result is one of the coolest and most fun movesets ever seen in a Dragonball game, but from the way Fighter Z works with character generation they probably wouldn't do the same thing.
Videl generally has a lot more combat moments they could pull moves and normals from, and it's only really in the supers that they had to get creative. Which... fair. It's basically the same situation Ginyu was in, really. Of the Ginyu Force, Ginyu himself isn't really the one with the most amount of combat screentime.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:44:29 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
I made a concept for her years back when the game was still new:
I originally tried imitate that, but I ended having way more fun with a more authentic concept. Virtua Fighter inspired me to do it.
Edited by dhochoy on Dec 2nd 2023 at 10:02:33 AM
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
Funnily enough, Chi-Chi and Top are two characters that I never really made a full moveset for. Here's all I made for Top, a concept missing most Normals and lots of little details:
His intro is him posing and announcing his presence as a warrior for Justice and leader of the Pride Troopers.
2M: A double ax-hand strike that hits the ground and creates a small shockwave. Low.
5S: Top creates a ball of ki in his hand and throws it. This beats weak ki blasts.
236L/M/H: Justice Rear Naked Choke. Command grab. Top crushes the opponent between his arms before letting go.
- L: Top grabs the opponent on the ground. Does 1,300 damage.
- M: Top jumps to grab an airborne opponent. Does 1,300 damage.
- H: Works on either grounded or aerial opponents. He crushes the opponent for longer. Does 1,700 damage.
j.236L/M/H: Justice Mount/Justice Tornado. Top lands on an opponent's shoulders, grabs their head between his feet and spins them high into the air before letting go, dropping the opponent. Air command grab.
- L: Works on grounded opponents.
- M: Works on aerial opponents.
- H: Works on either grounded or aerial opponents.
236S (Air OK): Justice Flash. Top points his hand forward and shoots 15 tiny ki blasts forward like a gatling gun, 3 from each finger. He can move forward or backward while shooting.
214L/M/H: Justice Crusher. A physical counter. He grabs the opponent's arm mid-attack, runs behind them, and dislocates their shoulder before letting go. Switches sides.
- L: Does 1,400 damage.
- M: Does 1,400 damage.
- H: Top throws them by their arm back past him, reversing the side switch. Does 1,700 damage.
236L+M Level 1: Justice Blast. He makes a large orange ball of energy between his hands and shoots it forward. Does 2,200 damage, 780 scaled.
214L+M Level 3: He makes a gigantic sphere of energy and launches it forward. Does 4,000 damage raw, 1,700 scaled.
214L+S Level 2: God of Destruction. He proclaims that Justice is worthless while ripping off the top half of his uniform. He powers up and his fat is converted to muscle. After transforming, he says that he's thrown away any concept of good and evil. His dialogue changes from heroic speeches to brutal and mean-spirited taunts, and he stops saying the names of all of his Justice moves. Boosts his damage by 10%. Changes and unlocks some moves. Permanent.
- Changed moves (which do 15% more damage):
- 5S: Now a Hakai ball. Does 100% unrecoverable damage.
- 236L+M Level 1: Justice Blast. Now a large Hakai ball. Can trigger an explosion Destructive Finish. Does 75% unrecoverable damage.
- 214L+M Level 3: He makes two Hakai orbs and combines them into a gigantic Hakai sphere that he shoots forward. Does 50% unrecoverable damage.
- New moves:
- 214S: Destructive Fission. Top flicks a tiny ball of Hakai energy forward. Destroys all projectiles.
- 236H+S Level 1: Hakai Aura. A purple aura. Automatically used when he transforms. Makes him immune to non-Super projectiles. Each physical attack that hits him does 200 unrecoverable recoil damage, subject to damage scaling. Each physical attack blocked by Top does 20 unrecoverable recoil damage. Top's physical attacks do 200 additional unrecoverable damage. Ends after 8 seconds or when he's hit by a Super attack.
- 214H+S (Air OK) Level 3: Destructive Fracture. Top flies up at the opponent and punches their stomach super hard, distorting their body. He then grabs their face, smashes them into the ground, picks them up, and crushes their head with Hakai energy before dropping them. Does 4,300 damage raw, 1,850 scaled.
Outro: Changes if he's in God mode. Normally, he poses and talks about how Justice will overcome all obstacles. When he's in God mode, he powers up and says that Justice is worthless, only power matters for survival.
Interesting that we went in basically the same direction, though I fleshed out his God mode more. It's been years since I looked at this, so maybe I'll change it to make Justice Rear Naked Choke a Command Grab Level 1 instead of a special move, and make the Hakai Aura just be a passive benefit of the transformation instead of a Super.
Ever Evolving, Ever Adapting
The roster for DBFZ is already pretty grand, for a sequel, especially for a base and not DLC, there arent too many that feel missing. But if I had to pick:
- Omega Shenron
- Toppo
- Cell (base)
- Granola
- Auta Megetta
- Ribrianne
- Moro
DLC:
- Dyspo
- Super Buu
- Gas
- Garlic Jr.
- Frost
- Dabura
HIIIHOOO!!!
To be fair, DBFZ hasn't shied away from using game material for character's movesets. Vegetto's Final Excalibur, 17's Super Electric Strike, and half of Yamcha's Wolf Fang Fist variations. In fact, I'm pretty sure some character's normal strings are pulled straight from Budokai, Tenkaichi and Xenoverse, but I can't remember which ones specifically.
Edited by Rinsankajugin on Dec 2nd 2023 at 6:02:28 AM
Gavan, Let's get jiggy!
Yeah, but that's only ever been a couple moves or so, where they don't have something to fill the gap.
They've never based the majority of a character off of that sort of thing, unless you count Android 21 (the game's OC) using a bunch of moves previously given to Dr. Gero in older titles.
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
And? And? And? And? AND?
I definitely remember Gogeta's 2M as his Spiral Arrow special from Ultimate Battle 22 so game references are definitely not off the table.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
Again, its not that they never do game references, it's that they don't base characters predominantly off of game appearances. There's a bit of difference between "we used a move or two from an earlier game to fill in this character's moveset" and "this character doesn't have much to pull from, so we based them entirely off of previous game appearances."
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 2nd 2023 at 4:39:06 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
They've never based the majority of a character off of that sort of thing, unless you count Android 21 (the game's OC) using a bunch of moves previously given to Dr. Gero in older titles.
They did with Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta.
Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Dec 3rd 2023 at 1:22:05 PM
Mind you, the fandom's the only place where the arbitrary "not enough references/no dupes" guidelines spawned from. The only Word of God self-imposed restriction we've got was "no Tao Pai Pai" from producer Tomoko Hiroki
, when talking about the game's design during its first reveal.
HIIIHOOO!!!
I still don't understand why Tao specifically had been excluded. Especially now that Roshi is playable, Tao would be perfect inclusion for a DBFZ2.
Gavan, Let's get jiggy!
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
I think it's possible they change their minds. They did about "no new balance updates planned before Rollback".
Probably due to Tao's general obscurity with casual fans. He definitely could work if they use Cyborg Tao.
Fighter Z also didn't really delve into pre-Raditz Dragonball at all, or at least, if they did use Pre-Raditz stuff it was only to place on characters that also got Post-Raditz usage.
There's a sense that Roshi only got in because the Tournament of Power arc decided to use him, for instance.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 4th 2023 at 9:09:06 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
Kid Goku is kind of a mish-mash of Dragon Ball and GT though, isn't he? He's "technically" GT Goku, but he also uses the Power Pole, which I don't think he ever did in GT.
If I'm wrong, I'll just slink away into a corner over here...
And? And? And? And? AND?
Tien has the Volleyball Fist he never used in Z as well. And most of Roshi's attack animations and his win anim are straight from OG Dragon Ball too. The only thing missing is Goku's Meteor Combination.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
That's why Tien couldn't beat Nappa, he forgot the Volleyball Fist technique!
And? And? And? And? AND?
Yep.
Also forgot to say GT Goku using the Power Pole might be a Path to Power reference since, even though that's meant to be an OG Dragon Ball movie it uses GT's art and Goku there is basically GT Goku.
I'm quite confident in my shitposting you know
IKevinX went through his movelist once, and iirc it was… weird.
It’s like… most of GT Goku’s stuff is originally from Kid Goku, but a lot of it seems drawn more directly from times that GT repeated those moments or moves.
Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 4th 2023 at 11:04:47 AM
"The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction has to make sense." - Tom Clancy, paraphrasing Mark Twain.
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
GT Goku never used a Power Pole, but while fighting Freeza and Cell in Hell, there was a moment where he was riding on Freeza's Kienzan and using a stalactite just like when he rode on Nimbus and used the Pole.
HIIIHOOO!!!
Yeah, GT Goku did borrow a lot from OG Kid Goku, though I could probably see Kid Goku being added in an eventual DBFZ2 as his own character with Daima around the corner. But again, that brings back the whole 'Too Many Gokus' debacle most Dragon Ball games have to deal with.
I could see them streamlining the roster a bit by fusing some of the repeats together in one way or another (ie. Goku Base/SS/SSB/UI, Vegeta Base/SS/SSB, 21 Labcoat/Majin). That right there would already free up 6 character slots. How they'd fix it would be another situation entirely though. I've stated before that it'd be neat if they added a universal install mechanic to give everyone a transformation of sorts, but I'm still not sure how such a thing could be balanced considering some characters have more forms than others, and some characters don't have any transformations unless you dig into what-if territory like Kaioken/Potential Unlocked/Supervillain Yamcha.
Edited by Rinsankajugin on Dec 4th 2023 at 7:47:26 AM
Gavan, Let's get jiggy!
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
Kid Goku has so much screentime in DB that they could still give him a 100% different moveset from GT Goku, even without the moves GT Goku took from DB Goku.
Off topic, but I am curious how many Gokus there will be in Budokai Tenkaichi 4. ![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
Oh wow.
It'd be near impossible to create a moveset for Chi-chi.
Then again, they did so for Videl, and she's fought as much as Chi-chi has.
One Strip! One Strip!