Fire Emblem Heroes

Again, I can easily kill Nowi on PP with Nino (a common 3* unit) anyway.

Basically this is sounding like you want to be able to counter Nowi without having to change your tactics or your team composition at all, which the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

edited 15th Jan '18 6:27:06 PM by Clarste

Top 5000 in AA with a score of 4968. I'm climbing back up in the world.

There is no need to resort to "stupid" to describe the opinion of someone else.

Besides, you are disregarding that Julep is talking about Arena Assault, not just Arena. It's not a matter of having "one" team that handles Nowi fine, it's a matter of being able to get her if she pops in one of 7 matches where you must perform as well as possible.

He's explicitly refusing anything but a PP unit. The whole point of AA is to force you to use a varied barracks. If he wants to cripple himself by completely avoiding a valid strategy, that's his own prerogative, but that also means his complaints are pretty dumb.

Thank you for being an unconstructive, condescending jerk whose sole contribution is "lol Nino can kill her", which no one really ever challenged, ever.

My point is solely that the option should exist, not that it is impossible, especially now that she is becoming ubiquitous in Arena Assault. If you are in whale tier where only Armor teams live, good for you, but I am not and requiring four or five Nowi counters in AA is annoying.

Especially against the various enemy comps where you cannot pull a single unit. Like Nowi and a ranged unit with Draw Back behind her.

The option is to use almost any axe user and don't attack first. You're rejecting that because you think it doesn't count if you have to use any tactics whatsoever other than the one you want.

TT is go.

New seals are Seal Atk, Def Ploy, and QUICK RIPOSTE.

Edit: TT boss is... regular Takumi with Desperation? Okay.

edited 15th Jan '18 11:10:08 PM by 1337x

Ooh, QR seal. Nice!

Seal Atk is interesting. Def Ploy is a godsend for the likes of Felicia, Innes, Camilla, Clair, and whatnot.

And... QUICK RIPOSTE?! WHAT?! Tanks just got a huge buff...

edited 15th Jan '18 11:09:43 PM by erazor0707

NY Takumi, Inigo, Hinoka, Arvis vs the Mini Tempest!

I really like this tempest lineup. My -attack NY Takumi and Hinoka (without Nowitch's flier buff) finally get to do decently thanks to more stats. Surprise of the day was Inigo one-rounding the enemy boss Takumi. I knew he was TA Raven Glimmer but I was still shocked.

In auto-battle, Inigo is replaced with... level 20+ Sakura. Without a weapon yet plus doing Physic, she stays decently out of the way and lives for a while.

edited 16th Jan '18 12:37:33 AM by Malco

Seal selection is pretty good except for Seal Attack, which is meh. Def Ploy in particular is a godsend considering how rare it is normally.

Flier Emblem's kicking ass so far in this TT thanks to Airzura support.

"Don't attack first" is always the solution.

Reinhardt? Tank him during EP with a green mage.

Lyn ? Tank her during EP with a raven tome or a dragon.

Cecilia ? Tank her during EP with a red tome.

And now Nowi? Tank her during EP with an axe. And unlike the previous three, she doesn't have the excuse of the 5-tile range on the map.

I want to use other tactics than "Tank during EP". It's Fire Emblem, it's not a tower defense game. You're also supposed to act during your phase.

edited 16th Jan '18 2:18:40 AM by Julep

Moving your units in range of the enemy to bait can be considered acting on your phase.

I'm sorry, QR?? Time to build a TA/Fury, Vantage, Quick Riposte Nowi I guess

Or Guard/QR for those units who rely on their specials.

Using rein and Lyn as exemple of units to tank on enemy phase is a very bad example and pretty much run contrary to the point you are trying to make. They are both insanely strong during their phase and super weak during enemy phase. You have a much better chance of success to bait reinhardt out of formation by exploiting his Ai,kill him on your turn and then reposition than to hopefully have a unit that can tank reinbow pulse. Especially in AA.

If you are trying to tank PP units during their turn and then complain that it's hard to kill EP units on your turn, you're doing something horribly wrong.

edited 16th Jan '18 5:00:59 AM by Yumil

Ooooooh good idea.

Their effective range is so large that they are hard to bait, not to mention the fact that a Reposition Rein/Lyn (so, pretty much 95% of Reins/Lyns) will stick with his/her teammates to randomly assist them instead of moving away to be baited, since as ranged units they are the last to act and prioritize an Assist if possible over getting closer to the most vulnerable enemy. If you cannot bait them on their own on R1, chances are on R2 they can reach almost every tile on the map.

On the other hand the new maps are bound to reduce their influence since they have to slalom around trench tiles.

Also, NY!Corrin with Bowbreaker can counter 100% of Mulagir Lyns (except those with Bowbreaker, but they barely exist) and 90% of Brave Bow Lyns, especially if you give him Steady Stance or Distant Def seal.

Sometimes you have to because of the maps or because of assist loops that stop the enemy from advancing.

And calling Reinhardt and Lyn "PP units" is ridiculous, they haven't dominated the meta for six months by being trivial to bait and kill. It has always been more reliable to build a TA/Raven tome user than to hope for a map where you can safely bait them. And I know that because I switched from S!Camilla (EP unit who could bait both of them) to Cherche (PP unit who can kill both of them) a few weeks back, and it has not made Arena easier at all.

It is annoying to see that once again, the solution against a common unit seems to be "tank during Enemy Phase", and that there aren't that many options to engage her during player phase.

edited 16th Jan '18 5:32:01 AM by Julep

This TT runs is now officially is the best of them all on the ground of including "End Of All". Anyone who disagrees is about as ignorant as not believing Oliver isn't beauty incarnated.

Rein and Bow Lyn are kind of anomalous due to their uniquely powerful nature, as while optimally you want to just let them get in range and then walk up and smash them to bits before they even get a chance to attack, that's not always possible due to assist skills and horse movement range, which leaves one or both out of reach of people without leaving someone hopelessly vulnerable. Dealing with them then involves abusing their range and baiting them where their teammates can't reach and dropping them on their turn with a hard counter. My counter of choice has shifted periodically, but has gone from Julia (when Rein was the only one) to TA/Bowbreaker/Raven Inigo, to TA/Bowbreaker Fae with Lightning Breath, all to enable baiting of pretty much any of these two, as well as a way to counter blues more reliably. Generally units like them aren't meant to be tanked on Enemy Phase, but their enormous range means the most reliable way to deal with them is to build a hard counter that can crush them. Contrast the likes of Ayra or Mia, who are safest to handle by blowing them up on player phase with a ranged threat or engaging on them with swordbreaker unit to prevent them from getting their special off.

As for Nowi, dealing with her on Player Phase is tricky because most Nowi's are built to maximize their countering power, with QR, Steady Breath, and similar skills, so outside of Gronnblade mages or Naga users, blowing her up before her countering can destroy you is a tricky prospect. It's just safest to deal with her on Enemy Phase when most of her skills aren't active.

edited 16th Jan '18 5:40:28 AM by Alfric

yes, you just explained why horse emblem is such a hassle to deal with. It doesn't make baiting them on EP any better of an idea.you are complaining that you can't have enough hard counters to nowi on AA, so when rein was at the peak of his power you also likely didn't had an army of Julias and raven mages to tank him everytime. Unless you have that hypothetic army of hard counters to rein, that's literally not an option when ve was as frequent as nowi now is. Getting him out of formation might be hard but at least you aren't limited by how many specific counters you have.

nowi on the other side is a unit that no matter how common it is has a ton of openings so long as you don't attack first. That's literally the entire point of her build. lf you refuse to do so because you are tired of doing that to another common unit you weren't even supposed to deal with that way, the problem clearly isn't nowi.

edited 16th Jan '18 5:48:12 AM by Yumil

Reinhardt and Brave Lyn are considered Player Phase units because that's how the player uses them. How one chooses to counter them is irrelevant .

Anyway, countering Reinhardt or Lyn can be done on Player Phase. In fact, that's how I usually counter Lyn: bait her with someone sturdy (or a fragile flyer, by exploiting the AI's behaviour), kill her on my turn with Grey/Cordelia/Cain/Brave Roy, etc. The enemy having Reposition complicates things, but there are plenty of options for a better approach (dancers, Reposition, Wings of Mercy, etc). It's way easier than using niche EP units (of which I only have Robin).

It's also way easier than doing the same against Nowi. Desperation mages are the only PP units capable of doing it, and not even that's reliable. Dealing with her on Enemy Phase is so much more appropriate, because you don't even need to one-shot her with a dedicated green unit. I've lured her with the likes of Effie and Masked Marth, and that was enough to bring her into killable range.

I wasn't a fan of having to build anti-Lyn and anti-Reinhardt bait units. I am not going to be a fan of building anti-Nowi units. Especially since there used to be perfectly fine anti-Nowi units (all green mages, all high Res grey units) that became much less useful because of that entirely unnecessary Lightning Breath+ upgrade.

edited 16th Jan '18 6:17:52 AM by Julep

There's no need to build specific anti nowi units to kill her. Unless you call an EP green unit a specific counter to nowi.

The main difference is that building a unit that can tank an attacking rein or lyn has to survive one of the best units of the game at it's strongest so of course you need to build a unit specifically to counter them if you want to bait them.

meanwhile surviving nowi means surviving an attacker that is litterally at its weakest, which remove the need to be specifically built to survive her.

edited 16th Jan '18 6:28:27 AM by Yumil

Yeah, on Enemy Phase, I can think of quite a few units that just counter Nowi naturally. Like Hector, Dorcas, Titania, Fae, or even Anna. Even if they don't kill her in one round (Anna certainly doesn't), she'll be weakened enough for someone else to do it.