Fire Emblem Heroes

I want to sacrifice one of my Adult Tiki's Bonfire for Bartre. But one has Atk+/Res- while Def+/HP-. Which one do I sacrifice?

For context, I invested on my 5* Bartre who has Atk+/Spd- with a Slaying Hammer+ Def+.

Fire Emblem Heroes Code: 4547311645 Fate/Grand Order Code: 188037115

Gordin wouldn't work because his innate weapon is a Brave Bow and they definitely wouldn't want to buff that. Saizo and Matthew might have worked, but seems they're pretty intent on pushing making Smoke and Rogue Dagger have enhanced versions of their initial effects. They'd probably be way too overspecialized and not used since their statline is otherwise pretty garbage, though. Setsuna has always been capable of this and was also buffed, but no one is flocking to her. Even if the dragon buff didn't exist, those characters are just so bad that, short of getting a Hunter's Knife/Bow, they're just never going to be touched by most people.

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Do you guys think Iote's Shield or TA would be better for Raven Bunmilla? My major concern with TA is that it auto-loses to CA Blyn, which is an issue when I want to run Flier Emblem.

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?

TA, since it improves your match-ups in general and CA is pretty rare. The Brave Lyns who usually run it usually do the Firesweep+ build, which baiting isn't especially helpful against.

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I was just talking about Gordin's statline. If any bow had been upgraded to have an innate Bowkiller/breaker, then all problems would be solved - it would mean you could use any bow unit, not just Setsuna, and it wouldn't be usable by Lyn because it's either Mulagir or the Brave Bow that make her dangerous, giving her an anti-bow weapon would kill her utility.

Ditto with Saizo and Matthew. The Silver Shuriken, while upgraded, instead of a stat buff, could give a choice between any of the breaker skills for melee weapons, instead of being used for debuffs. It doesn't have to be their own weapon for them to be usable, as long as it's something that is easily available at low rarity. That's how Cecilia became an Arena staple, without relying on any rare skill (ie available on 5* exclusives) and by being easily available herself, so if a combination of common weapon + common character, with a reasonable investment, could result in an easy-to-merge Lyn counter, I doubt no one would care (especially if those were mixed with the overall buff of the daggers). At any rate, it will be better than the future wyrmslayer weapons which will come at best on 4* characters you'll have to be lucky to pull.

A dagger with Bowbreaker/killer (kind of like Poison Dagger & Kitty Paddle, except against bows) + an AOE debuff could easily be useful on Arena, without suddenly shifting the meta. It wouldn't be as niche as Setsuna (who is only useful against Bows) but wouldn't be as ludicrously OP as Lightning Breath+.

What irks me the most is that with Fae, Young Tiki & Nowi's BST, there will be no fucking way to dodge Horse Emblem by merging teams, because dragon teams have innate high score. That's total BS. It isn't going to make Arena more difficult, because Flier Emblem turns them into dust, but Arena Assault is going to be even more of a pain, because dragon teams require even more investment than Horse Emblem to build counters to (you can't give Gronnraven+ to all your green mages like before, basically, and at the moment only Falchions are somewhat common as dragon killers - the hypothetical wyrmslayer hasn't been released and, as said before, will at best be locked behind a 4* unit).

It isn't that common either, but Poison Dagger gets bonus damage against Dragons, since they are infantry by default.

Cue IS introducing a cavalry Dragonstone wielder.

Poison Dagger has a pitiful Mt, so it screws with your score (and it didn't get buffed by the last update), and it has a hard time one-shooting bulky infantry such as Nowi or Tiki already (and that's before the possible +4 Def +5 HP Lightning Breath +).

It's really not all that bad for Arena Assault. Falchions, of which there's a lot of (with one being free) utterly obliterate Fae. With some Atk boosts (from various sources, whether they be A skills or buffs), they can also kill the Tikis. Blue mages also typically cause issues for Tiki, despite their Def being bad. My -Atk Linde and Mae at +0 are capable of winning against +10 Tikis with very minor Atk boosts (they survive with single-digit HP, but eh). Nowi's a bit trickier, since Deidre and Julia, the best green dragon kills, are 5* exclusive and many of the other green mages are either too slow or too wimpy to reliably take her down (exceptions: Soren and Nino). Blade builds also cause them all sorts of issues.

Yeah, maybe it's not quite as easy as spamming Gronnraven with TA2/3, but it doesn't take that much more investment. The luck factor kinda sucks, but you need that to have enough green mages for the above spam, anyway, so that's about the same difference, just over a more varied spectrum of colours.

Yes, the Silver Dagger could have been set up to be refined that way, but I seriously doubt they'd break convention for that. It's almost certainly have to come on a quirky weapon and a fitting one for it. And, unfortunately, daggers don't have too great of a variety.

EDIT Oh, and taking an appropriate TA against the dragons will still hurt their damage greatly while making unit's damage output a significant threat (and not just against the dragon of that particular colour, either). The difference is big enough that, back when Berkut's GHB first released, I had Sanaki face tank the axe cav with her piddly 30 HP and 17 Def and come out on top.

edited 12th Dec '17 3:42:20 PM by KuroiTsubasaTenshi

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Repost:

I want to sacrifice one of my Adult Tiki's Bonfire for Bartre. But one has Atk+/Res- while Def+/HP-. Which one do I sacrifice?

For context, I invested on my 5* Bartre who has Atk+/Spd- with a Slaying Hammer+ Def+.

Fire Emblem Heroes Code: 4547311645 Fate/Grand Order Code: 188037115

Nowi and Ninian are the biggest problem by far, because green is a color where you have to either rely on mages (who will either have terrible RES or DEF, so take heavy damage), or on axe units and axe units tend to have horrendous RES, so they wouldn't be really safe taking on either of the blue dragons.

The axes with decent (>25) RES can be counted on one hand. You have Anna (unmergeable), Hawkeye (22 SPD), Titania, Narcian and Camilla.

Well, that means I am going to 5* Narcian I guess, and that Emerald Axes will be the new Gronnravens.

That's what Brave Axe Cherche and Frederick are for. Amelia doesn't have great Res, but she can consistently beat blue dragons with her great speed. I recently even had her survive a Y!Tiki after being injured by Nowi. Her sheer stats go a long way.

Your preferences are not everyone else's preferences.

Nowi's Def can be a bit silly under certain conditions, and if Cherche doesn't OS her, she dies, due to her RES & SPD being void for all intents and purposes.

I'd say the HP- Def+ looks the most interesting to keep of the two Tikis but it's really close. If you don't plan to give Tiki TA down the line, then keep that one. If she will get TA, then go for Atk+ I guess.

Her best IV typically is Atk or Def+, Spd-. So you have a choice between the two best boons, and two of the most tolerable banes.

edited 12th Dec '17 4:22:20 PM by Julep

I might go Atk+/Res- then. HP- hurts her tankiness a bit so...

My +Atk/-Spd Bartre is nuts. 54 HP, 56 Atk from Fury 3 and Slaying Hammer, 25 Spd with Fury 3, 40 Def with Fury 3 and Slaying Hammer+ Def+, and 16 Res.

edited 12th Dec '17 4:31:43 PM by mariovsonic999

Fire Emblem Heroes Code: 4547311645 Fate/Grand Order Code: 188037115

Taking heavy damage tends to be a "So what?" moment for a lot of mages, thanks to Desperation being so common in their builds. As long as they can avoid getting one-shot, it's even to their advantage.

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When it comes to green mages, only Nino and Summer Elise are fast enough to run Desperation. Neither Soren or Sonya cut it unless you heavily merge them with the right boon. I've met a team with 37 Spd Nowi & 41 Spd Fae today.

Plus it's a matter of build uniformization. I already have five Blade/Desperation mages. Yes, they are super powerful. But it's always played the same way. I didn't give Raudrblade to Nowitch because with her Grimoire, she is used differently than "Buff/Nuke/Reposition" repeated a thousand times over.

If the solution to a new meta is "remember that meta that bored everyone to death? Use it again", then there is something wrong.

Maybe I am overreacting, and instead of replacing horses, dragons will actually add more diversity, but it's pretty uncommon to see a powerful team and its equally efficient BUT also hard counter sharing the same space in the meta. The latter tends to remove the former.

The higher-Spd Nowis are generally giving up their other durability or strong ability to counterattack (Steady Breath-Quick Riposte-Aether is the big kicker that requires careful play around), since she must be +10, then have 2 of Spd boon (instead of Atk boon), Spd forge (instead of Def or Res forge), Spd 3 Seal (instead of Dist Def 3) or Fury 3 (instead of Steady Breath or TA).

A high level of build uniformization is typically going to happen in the more competitive sections of the game. Many of the most competitive people are wired to minmax, full stop. Variety or being at/near the top are almost always going to be mutually exclusive choices to some extent.

And the old meta (that never left, I might add) being able to compete with the new meta is a good thing. It's a sign that things haven't been power crept enough to start falling into serious pay-to-win territory.

Also, dragons don't hard counter horses. They wreck Brave Lyn, but Reinbow Pulse and Gronnblade Cecilia are still a serious threat. Fae is also Res-oriented, so Eldigan with his new Fury 6 or Siegbert/Brave Roy can do a number on her. That's even before factoring in that Falchions are finally relevant again (even if they're not horses, it's still bringing back variety). Dazzling Gravity+ is also a dragon hard counter (since they're all melee) and guess who its best user is? Elise. Horses ain't going anywhere anytime soon. It just means horse teams might field something other than Brave Lyn be default.

edited 12th Dec '17 6:57:55 PM by KuroiTsubasaTenshi

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Dragons are tough, but without the movement or buffs of ponies/fliers they're not nearly as hard to deal with (unless you're in uber whale territory, don't know what that's like). They can be reasonably baited (especially with no Firesweep), don't cover an extreme range, and generally can't bulldoze over the player like Rein and Lyn could. Now granted I'm helped by having both Julia and Deirdre, but overall they don't concern me too much yet.

Your preferences are not everyone else's preferences.

Never let Narcian decorate◊.

Continue the bloodline, Fujimaru!

No, just Water Blessing and a Fjorm on the team. being +Spd doesn't exactly count as "giving up durability".

Not really, if you watch Lu Bu's channel, he challenges very top tier teams with teams ft. Selena or Oboro - and wins. He is not an average player by any means when it comes to, but neither are those who can give Steady Breath to their entire +10 dragon team.

Buffing an already powerful Distant Fucking Counter weapon will just incite absolutely everyone to go the easy way and will turn the meta into yet another repetitive bore. Remove that LB++ upgrade from the Refining update while finding something else to give players an accessible Lyn counter, and you can both reduce Horse Emblem's influence without leading to the rise of an equally boring new dominant team.

Competing, yes. Overcoming, hell no, that's a horrible thing. Why would players keep running Horse Emblem when they have an equally accessible team that hard counters it and gives you a much higher score?

Yes they do. Fae was a hard counter to Reinhardt before breaths were buffed, it hasn't changed since. Chances are she also could tank Cecilia since she had 3 more SPD, making her hard to double, and 46 HP/30 RES to burn through unmerged and unbuffed. No way any Cecilia can burn through a +10 Fae, especially since - yet another reason why Dragon meta is going to be a cancer - there is no anti-dragon B-skill. Cecilia was rather easy to get around with G Tomebreaker since she was slow. B or G Dragonbreaker don't exist.

Okay, my main issue is that dragon teams are going to be a cancer. Of course red horsemen will beat Fae (thankfully), but a dragon team will have Nowi, who could already burn through all red melees (even the anti-dragon ones) before the LB++ buff. There is absolutely zero adaptation required to counter Horse Emblem if you play a Dragon Team. Your default Dragon Team has all the tools required to defeat it. Reinhardt and Lyn were influent on the meta because many teams lacked a unit to counter them.

Unlike Reinhardt, Cecilia and Brave Lyn, Elise is 5* exclusive, and neither free nor recently featured on a banner, so her weight on the meta is going to be extremely limited (and that's without accounting for the extra Genny/Bride Lyn required to build her, but hey, who's counting). Also, Dazzling Gravity+ leaves you one tile away from your enemy, and the new breath upgrade leaves Elise utterly unable to tank anything due to her pathetic Def, so she has to OS dragons, despite their more than respectable RES, vast HP pools and the existence of Fortify Dragons - vast HP pools which, might I add, make it extremely hard to circumvent their buffs with Panic Ploy, unlike the most dangerous horses.

Sidenote, but Elise has a shitty BST and no Prf weapon, so she is going to tank your score on top of requiring insane amounts of money/luck to be built.

Horse teams without Brave Lyn/Reinhardt are not a problem for the meta, and I have no complaints about them. They don't really exist though. If you remove Lyn & Reinhardt, then horse teams will disappear from the meta because people will just try something else - and chances are, if you went Horse for the ezpz experience, then you will switch to the new ezpz experience, ie dragon.

IS just handed a new "easy cancer" mode for Arena and Arena Assault. One that is even shittier to work around because unlike Reinhardt (1 build) and Lyn (2 builds), you can have a lot of variety in Lightning Breath ++ Dragon teams, and it's multicolored so you won't get hard counters by crafting single units. When you need to build multiple teams to get around the dominant one in the meta, it is a problem, and it certainly isn't going to make the game less of a pay to win.

edited 13th Dec '17 3:42:05 AM by Julep

Okay, but Water Blessing and Fjorm's season aren't always going to be active. It's constant now because there's no other legendary heroes, but this is the kind of thing people with long-term planning skills don't count on. Also, being Spd just jack all against the stuff that's fast enough to double her anyway (of which there's a lot of) or packs brave weaponry (also a lot of). Her Res is also somewhat weak without significant tuning, so there's a number of strong greens that she's in danger of being one-shot by (and even then, that might not be enough—my Nino routinely one-shots Nowis with +Res forges).

Key word, typically. There will always be outliers. Smash Bros. Brawl featured one really good Pikachu player in a sea of Meta Knights in its competitive scene. That doesn't mean Meta Knight didn't typically dominate the top tier.

Also, top tier if full of atypical players. Taking a look at the teams I've faced in the last month—I'm not even at the very top and these are easily thousand-dollar units. And I fight a different person/team almost every match.

While, as I said before, I do agree that the new effect is overdoing it a bit, I also think you're way overstating how dominant dragons will be. Blade tomes and horses, among many other things that typically don't threaten blades or horses, pose a threat to dragons. They're far from invincible. Those who mindlessly bandwagon dragons as an easy way to win without actually thinking about how to play will find themselves with significant issues.

What? Rein can still destroy them. Blade Cecilia can still destroy them. The only horse unit with any severe impact to it is Brave Lyn because of her very glassy statline without a super brave/blade. You could say it checks the other horses, but hard counter is severely overstating it.

It's also not equally accessible. Brave Lyn is a possible freebie. Rein is 4=5*, sure, but both Cecilia and Gunter are 100% guaranteed and free. Nino is a relatively common pull for gearing up Cecilia. The only weird spot is finding a red if the player wasn't around for Xander, since Brave Roy and Eldigan are both 5* exclusive.

Meanwhile, both Nowi and Fae are 4-5*. Young Tiki is 5* exclusive. Adult Tiki technically scores a bit higher than horses because of infantry versus horses, but she doesn't have the trainee bonus. Ninian is a 5* exclusive. Corrin is technically 3-4*, but no one uses her. Oh, and Ninian being a refresher means a worse score, too, so a team really wouldn't want to use her if it could help it, which means either no Fortify Dragons or having to SI herto the others for it.

Fae hard countering Rein != hard countering all of Horse Emblem. Otherwise, transitively, F!Robin is also somehow a hard counter to all of Horse Emblem.

Okay, Cecilia might not be able to kill Fae, but so what? Horse Emblem generally also fields red swords. Fae's Def is pretty bad, so said swords will wreck her. A hybrid team could also bring two horses and a Falchion.

No anti-dragon B-skill? Wrong. Watersweep is a thing that exists.

And? Playing a Horse Emblem team, the player can easily delete any dragon they please by playing smart. Playing a Flier Emblem team, the player can easily delete any dragon they please by playing smart. Certain setups can and will still be dangerous to dragons. Setups that might not even be a concern to Horse or Flier Emblem, because they can just brave delete anything that might have one-shot them on the counter.

Nah, they're not gonna disappear anytime soon. Besides investment people already put into it, Brave Lyn still wrecks the shit out of a very large number of things. Rein still wrecks the shit out of a large number of things, including Tikis and some Nowis. Blade Cecilia still wrecks face.

What? Multiple teams are required for Arena Assault by definition of the game mode itself. Having a versatile bench in general is a big strength because there's janky builds in there meant to catch people off guard that can go to even more extremes than the current dragons.

Like, seriously, I haven't had to build anything extra for the dragons. My bench was built to take one other niche opponents. That Linde and Mae I mentioned before? Built as red tome killers. They're perfectly fine killing Tikis with very little adaptation. Falchion users? All built up to have strong swords that might also have been used to kill pre-forge dragons when they weren't getting nuked into the ground by the mages on my bench. A large series of green mages and axes? Built up because blue is generally a dominant colour. Hell, having multiple answers to Brave Lyn and Rein required far more preparation than this. Dragons may require extra thought on a per-match basis because their builds are new, but it's hardly any different than business as usual in Arena Assault.

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I tried for the Refinery Banner after getting Hinata and useless Flo, Gun, and Fred, I got a 5* Ephraim. He has +Res/-Spd, so it's an average Ephraim in my book. I'm okay with that.

Fire Emblem Heroes Code: 4547311645 Fate/Grand Order Code: 188037115

funny you mention all of this, cause i recently raninto a few dragon emblem on my arena/ AA runs, and I mostly agree with here. sure, brave lyn will have to sit back for a while, but horse emblem was a thing before her and will stay one after her. From the perspective of people who jumped the horse bandwagon long before bowlyn was a thing, it just means they have to get whoever was doing her job before out of the bench.

Ursula, and probably reinhardt too since he pretty much does everyting she does but better, or any ranged blue nuke actually, can one round anything not called fae. The only possible threat is nowi if she isn't in desperation range, but 1) she likely is to be simply by virtue of killing tiki/ninian/whatever else are your other dragons since they all have built in DC and 2) failing that, camus (or really, any generic not red tank horse with QR, so gunther/jagen/fred/whatever you like probably can) can wear her down in range of OHK easily with very little risk of dying. Horses mobility makes it easy to try and get away with it unless you're on specific maps.

As for Fae, yeah, Xander eats armies of her for lunch, and eldigan probably can too. She might hard counter the blue nuke, but said blue nuke will still wreck the 3 other members of the team with little trouble, which lets you a lot of room to bring a counter to fae.

I don't know how much things will change for the defense side, but offensive side, horses will still retain most of their qualities.

As for arena scoring, it's worth noting several horses have high F 2 P merge potential (Cecilia only really has feathers as the limiting factor to going +10, ursula can go to +4 as of now, gunther can probably reach high merges too, with little to no luck in pulls involved.) While adult tiki and potentially nowi can also be relatively easily merged, fae, ninian or young tiki are less interesting from a f2p perspective.

Horse emblem doesn't have to just be the Reinhardt and bowlyn show. If one of them lose meta relevance, there's a bunch of candidates to take the spot. The same thing happening to dragons would be a much bigger problem since there's so little of them as of now.

And if we're talking about top of the top meta, then unless dragons can compete with armor emblem for scoring, well top of the top meta was never horse emblem in the first place and unless dragon emblem can score just as high than degenrated full green armor emblem, then it won't change much either.

edited 13th Dec '17 9:42:28 AM by Yumil

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

One final thing we have to account for is using vs facing these teams. What makes Horse emblem so obnoxious isn't that its powerful in player hands, it's that Rein and B Lyn are devastating attackers in the AI's hands due to their crazy offenses and long movement range, which necessitates hard counters lest you be run down and have someone get killed. Playing Dragon emblem makes crushing Horse emblem easy due to two innate hard counters to these two and being able to bait easily with LB++, but playing Horse emblem can crush Dragon emblem easily as well due to high mobility and nuking power allowing you to pick off threats with the right units.

Dragon emblem does have a higher scoring threshold due to dragons being infantry and many having trainee boosts, but ultimately if we're just talking fighting them, they pose different but not necessarily inequal threats, and neither team is going to just die off. Dragon emblem is threatening in how bulky and hard to punch through they are, while Horse emblem is annoying due to how explosive and long reaching they are.

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yeah that's a very good point. what made reinhardt the nightmare of everyone and their grandma is that quickpulse honed reinhardt could ORKO the entire cast save for a few selected high res greens (which at the time meant Julia and nobody else unless you start factoring in buffs, since deirdre and sonya were introduced long after that), and had an effective attack range of fucking 5. generally speaking, high mobility makes them hard to bait, hard to outspace and therefore hard to split. they had overwhelming advantage when engaging, and everything not being a ranged horse was at a disadvantage when trying to engage them first.

Horses became meta for the AI because they were valid threats to the entire cast and were extremely aggressive as a team, which is what matters when it comes down to ruining a deathless streak, not because they were hard countering what was meta at the time.

On the other hand, every dragons are melee so only 3 of effective range, and aren't geared for player phase. They all rely on enemy phase countering. they'll never be as cancerous as horse emblem because being strong on the enemy phase when you are the AI is pretty much screaming BAIT ME PLEASE. They'll be godly in players hand, but the AI will easily be wrecked when people learn to bait dragons.

edited 13th Dec '17 10:38:27 AM by Yumil

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

I know they aren't invincible. I just think that they are once again going to dumb Arena and Arena Assault down. They had the opportunity with Weapon Refinery to make it more diverse, but left that giant piece of crap in the middle.

Distant Counter, as a rule, does not need any kind of buff, it's ubiquitous already. So upgrading Dark Breath, Flame Breath and Light Breath while leaving Lightning Breath fine would have been perfectly reasonable. After all, the Kitty Paddle and Poison Dagger got omitted from the list of refined weapons because they were seen at higher tier - leaving Lightning Breath on the list makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

Is it really going to be an issue considering Reinhardt became ubiquitous while being 4-5*? And no one uses Female Corrin yet. She has 34 Spd & 34 Def and her low Atk is made less relevant because she'll hit the weakest opposite stat. That upgrade is stupid enough to turn a bad unit into a respectable threat.

When you can individually counter the three biggest threats of Horse Emblem, you are a hard counter. Even if some let you in bad shape.

Red swords are not and have never been an issue with Horse Emblem as a whole. They never shaped the metagame, especially since Xander is hard to get and has limited merges.

Point is that there are very few downsides in playing Dragon Emblem now. You can get a relatively cheap entire Distant Counter team that easily beats the dominant defense teams of the meta. Which means many players are going to start using it, and make it more and more common as defense team, especially as it is equally as annoying to deal with as Horse Emblem and brings more points for a similar investment. And it will make the Arena boring once again. Which is a shame because as of recently the new superfast swords were becoming more common - but no matter the Ayra, Nowi will eat her (and no matter the Dorcas/Ike, Tiki will wall him).

On a 4* exclusive, which you have to upgrade to 5*, and it only works if you are faster than your opponent - Lilina or Sanaki can't use it, for example, and if the enemy is Young Tiki or Corrin it might not even be enough. Too many caveats to count as the equivalent to Bowbreaker vs Lyn.

But players who want their defense feathers will see how efficient Dragon teams are, and how universally annoying they can be, so they'll invest there, like they did with Horse Emblem and Reinhardt/Cecilia/Lyn. So we'll see more and more of them because of those 900 feathers a week players can't pass on.

My point is not that these dragon teams won't be manageable. It's just that they are going to become too common, and an interesting metagame is a diverse metagame.

Cecilia and Reinhardt (Cecilia moreso) have shitty BST to begin with. Having a score on par with them is not a good thing. And again, Elise is super rare, so those who went for Horse Emblem because of its relative availability might not make the effort to go that way. It's easier, if more costly in feathers, to get both +10 Nowi, Fae and Tiki than it is getting +10 Elise alone. One requires grinding, the other requires paying a lot more, and a lot more luck.

And Dragon Emblem comes with all the tools to wreck all three of them with zero required effort - no need to change builds, just use your default ones - a higher score and similar or better availability. Which one are people going to choose? If you already +10 Reinhardt and Cecilia, there is no more investment to put in them. You might as well move on to the next easy mode, Nowi, Tiki and Fae. It's not like extra investment would be required to keep improving Horse Emblem.

You put money in the game. I put money in the game. Our benches are not representative of what benches are supposed to look like. Every FTP player doesn't have Falchion, or seven distinct counters to Steady Breath Nowi. If Dragon Emblem starts becoming a nightmare at lower arena scores, then it will progressively take over the meta as the cheapest way for people to get their Defense wins, and it will move its way up the score ranges, and become equally as annoying as Horse Emblem has been.

And again, the stupidest part is that the meta was slowly getting away from Lyn and Reinhardt. But no, they had to give a ++ version to that one weapon that didn't require it. That's equally as stupid as giving Armads a bonus that allows Hector to use his Def against all ranged attacks, no matter their nature.

edited 13th Dec '17 10:44:33 AM by Julep