Proposed deletion of Summer2016Anime and all preceding pages

its fine if you are a fan of the show and completely up to date on their twitter in 7 languages but not everyone is such an ultra super mega fan of something that might or might not have already existing materials or in a language you can understand...

... what?

I believe that's suggesting why giving an air date for series in their third, fourth, twentieth season is a good idea. But, it's not. In any way. First, that air date will only count in the country of origin and so for that you're going to need to know which station to watch it on, and for that you are probably also watching said station any way and they will tell you. Or it'll be in an actual TV guide.

The pages are useless messes that are against the goals of TVT anyway.

I would also like to bring up that these indices are useless for anybody living in the Southern Hemisphere. I would be okay with dividing these pages by years instead, as we have far larger indices already.

Wow, until I actually looked at one of those pages, I still had some vague idea they might be useful. No longer.

My suggestion: get rid of all red-links and external links. If they are really here to benefit the wiki, that should be fine. They're indexes, and red-links are actually rather a pain on indexes, and external links are completely useless on indexes.

If the advocates of these pages are really trying to help the wiki, they won't object. But my suspicion is that they'll scream their heads off at the suggestion. Which will rather prove the point.

edited 4th Jan '17 3:45:03 PM by Xtifr

"If people disagree with what I say, it proves my point that I'm right."

I don't think that's how arguments work.

If people can provide reasonable counterarguments, I'm willing to listen. But if their only argument is '"wah, I don't like that!" then I think my conclusion is a reasonable inference. Or at the very least, reasonable abduction.

edited 5th Jan '17 10:43:16 AM by Xtifr

If people want to keep the page, can we agree on at least a bare minimum so the page isn't useless

1. Air Date
2. Where it's airing (Channel, Streaming Service, etc...) and at what time slot
3. Where it can be legally seen outside Japan (As we can't link to piracy/torrents/illegal streams)
4. Who made it (Studio / Director)
5. A description that's actually useful (include the genre). And not a "Continuation of previous season" if it's a work's newest season.

And a show needs all 5 entries to make the list. Especially #3. There's no reason to list shows that can't be seen outside Japan on the wiki. Japanese people, by virtue of speaking Japanese, have access to a ton of sites where they can follow the brand new anime of the season, and this is an english speaking wiiki, so the argument that "Well for people who can't follow the twitter account or whatever coz they don't speak Japanese" is pointless since they can't watch the show anyway.

And this would need to be done to all previous pages so people don't think the lazy no effort format those pages have currently been designed with is acceptable.

edited 5th Jan '17 11:38:43 AM by Ghilz

It strikes me as an excessive amount of effort for something that has no real purpose on TV Tropes.

Oh, I agree it has no purpose to the wiki's mission, but so does a lot of stuff we have.

My argument is IF we are to keep it, at least make it useful. Currently it manages to be both off mission, and completely bleeping useless at its intended purpose. And the people arguing the page fills a much needed job, well then they can't argue against putting the extra work to make sure the page does it's job properly can they? If they don't want to, then there's no reason to keep the page if no one's willing to put the effort to make it in the first place.

edited 5th Jan '17 11:51:39 AM by Ghilz

Making the people who want it go to the effort to make it useful under threat of removal certainly has some delicious irony value. Sure, let's go for that.

I suppose that makes some sense... it's never going to be anything but an irregular page that doesn't conform to the site's standards, syntax, format, or mission, but at least it could be useful.

Otherwise we're breaking our own rules just to keep some useless pages around.

I'd rather see them go altogether, but this seems like a decent compromise.

1 and 4 are acceptable, but I see no reason why they should be mandatory. That sort of information is better placed on the work page.

2 and 3 seem completely useless, bordering on counter-productive. That actively encourages people to think of this as Anime TV Guide. The point raised about 3 would be better addressed by not listing works that don't have existing pages!

(Requests for page creation can go to List Of Shows That Need Summary.)

In general, most of our indexes are simply listings of names, with no further information. What makes these indexes so special that they need requirements no other index has? Is it...maybe these really aren't intended as indexes?

The fundamental issue here is: why should Anime be sorted by season when every other medium is sorted by decade? What's so special about Anime that it needs it's own special TV-guide-like pages?

While "delete it" is also my preference, but to be honest, we have stuff like Fanfic Recommendations that fills basically the same purpose. And Fanfic Recommendations has strict requirements for how things are posted. So I can live with these list existing on the wiki, so long there's a bare minimum of info entered.

edited 5th Jan '17 12:09:35 PM by Ghilz

At a minimum, the articles should function like real indexes: that is, they should list works that have TVT articles. Beyond that, if there is useful information that can be conveyed in an index format, I don't really care.