Stranger Things — a Netflix Original Series with Amblin-Styled Scares and Wonder

I feel like the issue here is that Realistic doesn't always equal entertaining.

I don't know, I find watching a smug dick get their comeuppance to be very entertaining. That's called catharsis.

It's attempts to inject nuance into one-dimensional monsters (like Eleven calling Brenner "Papa" in his final moments) that leave me going, "Ehhhh, did they have to, though?"

Edited by TobiasDrake on Nov 30th 2022 at 9:12:11 AM

I'm not really sure what else she would have called him. That's what she grew up using. I don't have a problem with her calling him that, especially given the fact she did not give him the absolution he so desperately wanted in his final moments. She may have called him that, held his hand and shed tears, but she did not forgive him for what he had done. When he asked for her understanding, she let go of his hand, bid him goodbye and walked away.

I felt the scene was more about the lies he had told himself to justify to himself what he was putting these children through and, in his final moments, he desperately wanted Eleven to validate not just that delusion, but the delusion that the children understood and (effectively) accepted all that he'd done. Her refusal meant that he spent his last few moments alone with the knowledge that — in the end — the only one who had ever indulged that delusion was him. He did not get the deathbed absolution he was begging for.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Nov 30th 2022 at 6:33:03 AM

I think the issue some have is that the show was clearly trying to make Brenner a more 3 dimensional character. Even if it was not trying to justify him.

Like, his death scene for example is clearly going for poignancy. As the camera pans away slowly with sad music playing in the background. And to some even that is far more then Brenner deserved.

I am not sure I feel that way myself, but that's what I think others are trying to say.

I didn't really feel like they made him a more three-dimensional character. The season really layers on just how much of a manipulative, abusive, repehensible monster he is through and through. The guy basically gets up in the morning and asks, "How can I be the shittiest fucking person who ever lived?", and then proceeds to do all the things we see him do.

Which is why the decision to depict his death with unwarranted pathos is so jarring. The guy is a Complete Monster who just racks up atrocity after atrocity by torturing children. His death should be celebrated by the story's tone, not tragically mourned.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:52:14 AM

(Looks at Billy)

Yeah, they gave Billy a lot of unwarranted pathos too. The show kinda has a problem with thinking that their abusive monster characters are tragic and sympathetic.

I'm (pleasantly) surprised Jason didn't get a five minute scene dedicated to Lucas cradling half of his body and crying about how it didn't need to be like this. Just got split in half in a blink and you'll miss it moment. Ding dong, the bastard's dead.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Dec 22nd 2022 at 6:59:42 AM

With Billy the Troubled Abuser aspect of his character was already set up in season 2. So giving him deph did not come out of nowhere. And season 4 goes to great lengths to show that Max's feelings on him are very nuanced and him redeeming himself in death did not make years of trauma from him magically disappear.

I felt the pathos of the scene was more about what Eleven had most. Even on his deathbed, he couldn't be a father, he just had to try and manipulate her that one last time, and she didn't stand for it. It wasn't pathos for or about him, it was for and about Eleven — this was the closest thing to a father she'd ever had for most of her life and, in the end, he couldn't give her even one genuinely paternal moment. The pathos was about the loss of what she'd never had from him, rather than about him.

I don't know if what I'm trying to say comes across as well as I'd like it to, but I don't have a problem with pathos when a villain dies, especially when it's more about what the hero has lost (or never had the opportunity to ever have from the villain) than it is about the villain themselves.

In theory giving pathos to villian like billy or brenner is not really a bad thing at all, and no "I want to celebrate the bastard is dead!!" is not a reason not to.

But I think the problem is the placement of it, Billy spend most time bordering between guy with serious anger issue and a kinda total lunatic, then he got control by mindflayer and....that it? yeah that it. Hell Billy father is a douchebag who make his son a monster and he just live.

meanwhile brenner is more confusing because aside of just surviving because plot, he show out of nowhere and the show carry out as this more complex personality was with him all along. so there is a jarring issue where him get more pathos out of nowhere.

In short the problem is pacing, Billy get pathos in a flashback show to eleven who dosent know him or give a shit and brenner just leave more question than answer, is funny but Jason actually would feel more apropiate for bad guy pity given that, his deluded fantasy aside he thought all this was a satanic plot lucas was into it unlike Billy who is just an ass and brenner who is pretty responsable of all that happen.

Millie Bobby Brown announces her engagement to Jake Bongiovi https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-65240158

Anything new on season 5?

Just the recent news that Linda Hamilton has been cast in an unspecified role.

https://twitter.com/discussingfilm/status/1670198441220210688?s=46&t=xV_8r0pwVBDj5j0rQQCWyA

The stage show is supposed to hint at things to come in season 5. I really hope they record it and put it up for streaming because putting essential information for a widely loved series in a performance that only a small handful of fans in a specific part of the world with deep enough pockets for theatre tickets will ever see is not considered a smart move.

So the actress who known to play Sarah Connor in Terminator film series is going to be on the final season? I hope there's an important role for her.

Edited by Bubblepig on Jul 5th 2023 at 8:29:08 AM

At worst they'll get a sneak preview. There's not going to be "essential information".

"Important" might not mean "prominent" here. Keep in mind Robert Englund was a One-Scene Wonder.

My girlfriend and I have started taking bets on which if the 16(!?) protagonists are going to die in series five.

My argument is that the show has to end with El, Hopper, Will and Joyce enjoying a happy family after the years of hardship trying to achieve that, so the four of them and Johnathan can't die. And that there's no need to have Max die in her coma given that they can keep her in that thing for as many episodes as they like for narrative ease.

But my argument is that the increase the pace in the second half of the series, half way through a number of characters will die (or be removed from the narrative by being trapped, possessed, put in a coma).

Shoo Out the Clowns would have me think Murrey and Argle. Steve seems like such a tempting character to kill given how beloved he is by so many protagonists, but my gut suspects that due to his extreme popularity, the eventual spin off will be staring him?

I honestly can't see this show having the heart to kill any of the younger generation, at least not outside of a huge heroic sacrifice in the finale. As heart breaking as killing Dustin would be, I can't see them doing it. Maaaybe Mike gets to do a heroic something in the end to pay back El doing that for him. But this show largely isn't cruel. Which also why I think it's more likely that members of the cast get trapped rather than killed.

Also, what's Enzo going to do in series 5?

I wish they'd killed Steve off in season 4. Like, instead of creating the whole character of Eddie Munson, just give Eddie's character arc in its entirety to Steve. You wouldn't need to make many changes (other than that the screentime needed to establish Eddie can be freed up for other characters), and killing off someone like Steve would be a pretty shocking thing.

Is it true Stranger things has been doing a crossover comic with TMNT?

Yep. Read it myself.

Vecna and Baxter stockman are the main villains. (I guess it makes sense for the science theme . Shredder would have been weird.)

Brenner and Stockman would have been my pick. But so it goes.

I remember once hearing a theory that they created Eddie because they wanted to kill Steve but because he was so popular they refrained and thus Eddie was born.

I dunno, Eddie is a very interesting character for an Eighties pastiche.

He's a drug dealer and metal head that absolutely is a cuddly fluffy Heart of Gold character.

And it makes 100% clear that Dungeons and Dragons Satanic Panic, Heavy Metal Satanic Panic, and Drug Panic was all outrageously evil persecuting people who were harmless.

That's a bolder statement than I think people realize.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Sep 25th 2023 at 11:21:23 AM

Honestly think that would work Better too. Like hell think about it. Their both Mad scientists but specialise in different components with cybernetics for Stockman and Organics for Brenner.

Would have paired Vecna with Krang as they fit better