Misused: Alliterative Name

Alliterative Name as it stands is getting used any time a character has two names that start with the same letter, even if it's not actually alternative. I've seen names like Eve Elcott come up where they don't start with anything like the same sound. Add in that it's almost all ZCE examples and the whole thing is a mess.

That said, alliterative names are common is large casts to help keep track of characters. I propose instead making the trope Alliterative Theme Naming so that we get it off individual character pages where it's most likely to wind up a ZCE and instead make it about a naming scheme that permeates a work.

Sounds like a fair proposal, even though it would narrow the trope substantially.

It would narrow it down substantially but it would stop the massive ZCE problem. As it stands the character pages are nothing but the trope name the majority of the time and page examples are just name lists.

What would be proper context for Alliterative Name as it exists now?

Name and title tropes are kinda hard to provide context for, because often there's little else that can be said besides "Yep, this applies." The exceptions are Meaningful Name and Theme Naming; it's kinda impossible not to provide context for those. That's why shima is suggesting changing it to a Theme Naming trope.

I think there might be two tropes here, both stemming from the same source. The basic idea is that alliterative names are easier to remember, so authors use them a lot. This actually does include names that merely start with the same letter, not just sounds. The thing is I think it might be worth splitting it between Alliterative Theme Naming and Main Character Alliteration or something. Or maybe not.

Basically, I'm worried about losing examples where the hero and/or the villain is the only one in the series that has an alliterative name. Superhero comics are famous for having their heroes be alliterative but not necessarily their supporting cast, so I want to make sure they're included.

I would be ok with Main Character Alliteration as a second split actually. That would still make people give context of why they're a main character and it would stop it being spammed on the character pages of minor extras.

I also think making it fictional characters only would be good so it's not all over reality TV pages.

edited 22nd May '16 5:18:33 PM by shimaspawn

What makes it a trope for main characters but not supporting characters?

I'd perhaps include things like stage names and such that deliberately go for it, but otherwise I don't see a point with real life names. Of course, that's if it isn't remade into a theme trope.

Because it gets spammed with no context on character pages for Alice Ava who showed up for two minutes in one episode. It's a ZCE magnet. We need to fix it or cut it. No amount of cleaning seems to work.

edited 22nd May '16 6:03:36 PM by shimaspawn

Again, what would proper context be?

I dont think being a Main Character is a requirement, many works do it for reoccurring characters as well and that is trope worthy when they are in nearly every episode. One off bit characters are not that though, they are not really qualified for a lot of tropes like this.

The big problem I have is the misuse in the Japanese sections which are 'the same sound' not 'the same letter'. Stuff like Mayu Miyano is not an example while Misaka Mikoto and Misaka Misuzu is one.

edited 22nd May '16 7:46:44 PM by Memers

In the case of Japanese, the sound produced is more relevant in the context of alliteration than the actual mora used to represent it. Even though most kana represent a consonant followed by a vowel as a single unit, we can still take those with the same leading consonant sound to be alliterative.

Not really no, it needs to be the same syllabary for it to work in Japanese if it is not then the beginnings of the two words do not start the same and not connected at all thus not this trope.

edited 22nd May '16 9:20:52 PM by Memers

They're not completely unrelated, though, since gojuon ordering exists.

But that does not make it this trope though, its quite different.

I think the problem is the trope describes a narrow definition of "alliteration" without explicitly forbidding other definitions. And the laconic describes a different definition.

If there's some reason "Eve Elcott" should not count (none that I know), it needs to be explained on the page before editors can be expected to know it.

edited 24th May '16 11:08:09 AM by DiamondWeapon

Alliteration is starting multiple words with the same sound. It's why Conner Kent is alliterative but Eve Elcott is not. Conner and Kent both start with hard Cs. Eve is a long E and Elcot is an elle sound.

On that logic, a fair number of superheroes would no longer qualify. Peter Parker, Miles Morales, Scott Summers, Bruce Banner, Bucky Barnes... all of those have the same first letter but not the same first syllable.

The dictionary disagrees.

alliteration
[uh-lit-uh-rey-shuh n]
noun
1. the commencement of two or more stressed syllables of a word group either with the same consonant sound or sound group (consonantal alliteration) as in from stem to stern, or with a vowel sound that may differ from syllable to syllable (vocalic alliteration) as in each to all.
Compare consonance (def 4a).
2. the commencement of two or more words of a word group with the same letter, as in apt alliteration's artful aid.

The trope could of course exclusively use a narrower definition if necessary (although I still don't see why it would be), but as I said the description would need to clearly explain that to avoid misunderstandings. And in any case having the laconic agree with the main page would also help.

edited 30th May '16 8:46:40 AM by DiamondWeapon

The point isn't whether it fits a certain dictionary definition of the word. The point is if it fits the pattern of using alliteration as a way to make the character name more striking and easily remembered.

In any case, what does or does not count as alliteration isn't the biggest issue. The biggest issue is the massive number of ZC Es on character pages.

That's common for naming tropes. What context beyond the name itself would be necessary to show a name is an example?

Maybe it can be limited to when the name is noted to be alliterative in-universe, instead of just having every single alliterative name? (for example, Haruno Haruka has her alliterative name pointed out, and it results in the nickname Haru-Haru)

Limiting examples to those noted in-universe or explained via Word of God seems a good fix.

The big thing about this trope is these names are simple and easy to remember, I dont think that is needed. I just think they really need to be accurate to the repetitive sound, some times excessively so.

The stuff is so utterly obvious like Miyako Miyazaki, Misaka Mikoto, Misaka Misuzu, Nils Nielsen, Kirihara Kiriha, Mikoshiba Miko, Jack Jacqueline, Naru Narusegawa, Konoka Konoe, Konoemon Konoe, Yukino Yukinoshita, Yui Yuigahama, Hayato Hayama.

Yeah, but it kind of doesn't make sense to list all of the extremely obvious ones... It's basically just pointing out "Yeah, this character has a name where both parts start with the same sound." That's what's leading to all the ZCEs. If we limit it to pointing it out in-universe, or having a Word of God justification as Willbyr said, then it would cut down on a lot of those empty examples. At least, I think so.