I don't like it when people want to use tropes. My feeling is that tropes are descriptions of what has been written, not the framework to the writing. The reason they become tropes is that they turn up a lot. The reason they turn up a lot is that narrative just works better that way.
Nobody writes three men as 'id' 'id' 'ego', or any 2+1 combo. Id, Ego, Superego just works better. Even if you have never heard of Freud, a group of three men in partnership just works better as a Freudian Trio. Ditto Five Man Band. For every Real Life example, you will find loads where the trope doesn't fit. Red Oni/Blue Oni works in fiction because the opposition while working together makes for interesting fiction, but without the benefit of a narrative people tend to be attracted to people like them.
edited 4th Apr '16 3:37:49 PM by Last_Hussar
MIA
Ok then so I shouldn't use them at all and be over with it.
MIA
What I am saying is write what works, and don't worry about fitting it to a trope- why make a straight jacket for yourself? Just write as well as you can.
Take jokes - its been noted that '3' is a good number in a joke- the protagonist does something twice, then the pay off comes the third time he does it. It is the third of 3 people the punchline happens to, etcetera.
However, if you have a joke that works best on 2x, or needs 4x then that is the way to go. However, you will probably find most jokes you write work best on the 3x basis. Don't stop writing, write, and edit, write and edit more. You will probably find the best version can be described by a trope, because that's usually what works. However if you find its 95% good and 80% trope, do you really need to change it so it is 95% trope and 80% good?
Cliches are another thing, A cliché is something that is overused. The problem is that the reason they are overused (and thus cliches) is that they fit the best. Now a plot/character/etc can be cliched and it not matter (Take say CSI, is there really any difference between any of the plots, no matter what particular city you are watching). There was a jokey game around the Hospital Drama 'Casualty' - at the start of the episode you will see three people. BEFORE ANYTHING HAPPENS you know - one will die, one will be reconciled, one will learn a lesson. People used to try and guess which is which.
However, if it seems cliched to you, it probably will to readers (who aren't as invested as you). Are you writing the best you can? What are you bringing to your reader? Okay, this will sound like a boast- I don't want it to, but its a book I know intimately. My Romance can be seen as cliched- Boy meets girl, boy falls in love, boy loses girl, girl comes back. BUT its made my beta readers cry, because of the meat on those bones- When I finished it I found it wasn't about a man gaining his love, its about a woman learning to love herself. What started as a cathartic happy ever after for him became following a woman who stops seeing herself as men define her. The cliche turned out to be the thing her journey hangs on, not the journey itself.
Peasant boy goes to rescue princess with help of wise old man is a familiar tale. Take it out of its cliché, and suddenly George Lucas is a very rich man
Rom-Coms- boy meets girl, girl hates boy, boy and girl clash, boy and girl realise its love. That goes back to Shakespeare, possibly further. Hasn't stopped Richard Curtis becoming successful off that cliché, But then he usually adds something. Just write as well as you can, and polish it.
Sitcoms are Cliche and Trope overdosed. This is because comedy works better if you are already comfortable with the characters.
Even where the aim of the writer was exploration of a trope, they don't write to the trope. Takes 'Kingsman' - the first half is a deconstruction of Tux and a Martini spy movies, and the 2nd half is a affectionate parody/homage. The write went- "Ok, what does Bond look like in the real world, how can I turn it about", but he wasn't writing to the (deconstructed) trope, he was deconstructing the subject that can then be described by tropes
Just write the best you can. Write it tight, make your reader empathise. Don't worry about getting the tropes in. A good story is independent of its tropes. And, most importantly..
Just write the best goddamn story you can.
edited 4th Apr '16 5:17:34 PM by Last_Hussar
MIA
well....to be honest it does kinda pay homage to sailor moon as well as parodying it (john is basically the opposites of usagi in every way save for alignment)
MIA
I know of Sailor Moon, and that's the extent of my knowledge. If its a Fan Fic, I can't help you - I tend to avoid them, and haven't written one since I was at Primary school in the 70s. If it is, it depends on why you are writing. If it is telling yourself and friends popular stories then you have more latitude, and you can throw every single trope you enjoy in there, because you know what the reader (ie you) enjoys.
Parody can be difficult to pull off. At its best its more than having a Wizard called Goodgulf Greyteeth. Its easy to come up with a great idea for a parody, and then find you've only got plot for the famous bit, and no way to fill the other 90%. A good parody has to sustain a plot on its own merits.
To be honest,their are some cliches out there that are either so good, you can't let it go or cliches that suck so hard that it must be changed or subverted. The reason I'm saying this is because if someone says that something is cilched it's automatically bad. I like to play around a bit and toy with certain tropes and play one's trope but the only thing a can't is make something new (if you count baby fairies looking like caterpillars with baby human faces original). When I think up of a idea, out there is a show,webcomic,comic, or movie that already done that. It makes me saddened to realize it and scrap the idea entirely. We really need help with these man, maybe gender invert tropes, or make characters more dynamic and villains more clever than incompetent. I honestly might throw the whole nature themed magical boy show away. It's just cliche to some people's eyes and I honestly don't know why.
MIA