Jessica Jones

In season one it is just suggested that it happened while Trish was a teen. In season two it is specified that Trish has broken free of her but is still in the show biz. And frankly, it galls me that they turn her mother suddenly in a protecting figure.

edited 22nd Apr '18 10:36:13 PM by Swanpride

I don think she's presented as a protecting figure here at all. However, she is good at managing Trish when she's spinning out of control. She won't do it for the right reasons, and she won't provide a lasting solution, but she can keep Trish from completely destroying her own life, buying Jessica a couple of days to deal with all the other problems. Everyone else who could have been of any help was needed elsewhere.

I am not talking about what happened in the present, I am talking about the notion that the solution for Trish's drug problem in the past was "hey, go back to your abusive mother from whose influence I just freed you". Just...no! NO!

I saw it more as her mother taking advantage of Trish's backsliding to keep the foot in the door she got from Trish asking her for help earlier and barge back into her life.

When her mother comes back in her life, Trish has alienated absolutely everyone else. Her coming back is just seen as the east horrible possible situation, it is not depicted as positive.

Again, I am not talking about her shouldering her way back into Trish's live NOW, I am talking about the notion that while Jessica and Trish's were young adults, Jessica's solution for Trish's drug problem was "hey, go back to the abuser from whose clutches I just freed you, she will help you". I mean, WTF!

Well, addiction makes people do stupid things.

???? Jessica wasn't addicted back then.....

Must have misremembered then.

This is btw another reason why I don't like the addiction storyline for Trish...we already have this for Jessica. She alone has already enough issues for both of them, and that is before Trish's child abuse and forced eating disorder problems. And her need to control her whole environment. And this need for control makes Trish's past addiction even more ill fitting for her character.

It really feels like the writers simply threw in every cliché one can connect to child stars.

Trish was set up pretty well to be the antithesis of Jessica. There wasn't a moral line she wouldn't cross to get powers, she needs to be the center of attention, she is unconsolably self righteous and hasn't shown any real expressions of guilt over her actions. In short she's one of the last people I would feel comfortable with having super powers. If anything, Trish never escaped her addictions, her mother, or her past. With her history with drugs and a strong desire to be a hero (often expressed by her encouraging Jessica), it's hardly a stretch to imagine Trish might relapse when offered a chance at her dream, not to mention how she honestly thinks she's doing the right thing and helping others. I'm not saying she's right, but she does have a clear reasoning.

If anything, I'd say they're setting up Trish to be an antagonist in season 3 (with a redemption arc as well), embracing a very public identity as a superhero, doing talk show interviews as Hellcat and whatnot. She could very well be kinda like Fisk, and be a villain who thinks she's the hero. Clearly Jessica thrives when she's up against deeply personal villains instead of vague street crimes. And it would have a lot of emotional weight. Despite whoever the human villain is of a season, emotional damage usually is the real villain so it would hold with the theme. Trish will probably be a supporting antagonist like Simpson was in season 1. Who the main villain will be, I have no ideas.

Perhaps Kilgrave was precognitive when he made that "she can play the hero, and you can be the villain" remark back in season 1.

edited 26th Apr '18 8:20:37 PM by dmcreif

The show is selling that idea but I wasn't buying.

Season 1 Trish is like 99999% more trustworthy of having powers than Jessica and I am not really persuaded by Season 2 Trish being the same person.

Pretty much. What I liked about Trish in the first season was that she had a firm moral compass, which is frankly a miracle considering her upbringing. And that moral compass was exactly what made her interactions with Jessica so compelling.

Season 2 Trish was a different person, though. She was either hopped up on anger 'roids throughout the season or suffering withdrawal from anger 'roids.

I can summarize my opinion as Jessica Jones did Character Derailment to do Character Shilling.

Who was being shilled in this season?

edited 27th Apr '18 9:01:44 AM by windleopard

I feel like Jessica gets a pass on all of her behavior up to and including acting like Fantastic Racism trumps real racism.

It's not Fantastic Racism, it's Fantastic Ableism. People were treating her like she was dangerous and volatile because she had mental issues, anger issues, and super strength. People discriminating against others because of the first two alone is already VERY common in real life.

I think the one thing that's off-putting to me is the whole 'breaking up the Scooby gang' thing of the season. Like, the thing that Daredevil and Jessica Jones have is that they are shows about a core group of characters that is strongly bonded together, working together against challenges that come from outside the group, not fighting amongst themselves, a Scooby gang if you might say (Deborah Ann Woll once used that phrase to describe Matt, Karen and Foggy as one). This isn't to say that they can’t ever challenge each other or have differences of opinion, but just, ultimately, I want these people to support each other, with the show’s conflicts coming from outside. That’s the good stuff, those strong relationships are what get me really invested in a show and make me care about what happens.

Where things become a bit of an issue, for me, is when shows rely too much on conflict among the main characters for drama. Or when they do the bait-and-switch: they start off with a strong core group, and then tear it apart after they’ve sucked the audience in. This isn't limited to these shows in particular: a lot of shows have this logic that they at some point need to throw a wrench in the group for drama.

Daredevil Season 2 left me feeling kicked in the gut, which I assume was the writers' intention there. It was upsetting because Matt had mostly worked through his issues with Foggy, and all that was left was that he needed to tell Karen his secret, Karen who had been a staunch advocate for Daredevil. But they really needed Matt down at the end (probably because the writers needed Matt in a place where he could realize he couldn’t do it alone and needed the help of others like Jessica, Luke and Danny). And Matt is so desperate to keep his lives separate, it was inevitable it was going to crash and burn on him at some point. As frustrating as it was to watch Matt blow up his life, he had realized by the end how much his regular life meant to him and that he wanted to fix it. And there wasn’t the sense of hopelessness there is at the end of Jessica Jones season 2.

Of course, I also have hope for Matt, Karen and Foggy in Daredevil season 3, because in their second season, the source of friction between Foggy, Karen and Matt was because Matt was lying to them and keeping them in the dark for no legitimate reason. And even with the limited screentime for Matt's supporting cast, The Defenders even dropped enough characterization for everyone in that trio to make sure that they can reconcile in Daredevil season 3.

With Jessica Jones season 2, there's a lot more of an uphill battle for Jessica, Trish and Malcolm because there's damage coming from multiple sides. My best guess is that whatever the threat is in season 3 is, they will spend some time having Jessica and Trish both going after this threat and thwarting each other as they butt heads, kinda like Frank and Matt in the first part of Daredevil season 2, with the impetus being a mix of Jessica still not being able to look at Trish because of her choices as well as her judging Trish's techniques as a newbie hero without yet understanding the responsibility that comes with her abilities and how it could lead her to become no better than the bad guys. This could come to a head where Trish finally gets it and tries to get Jessica to take her on as a peer/sidekick to teach her, which will be a long road of refusals that ultimately ends in concession due the the nature of the threat they are up against. Trish then begins a redemption arc, and the two end up reconciling and working together.

As for Malcolm, he's likely going to be led to directions by Cheng that go against Jessica, with Cheng and Jeri being involved in the business of whoever the villain for season 3 is. Cheng and Jeri will do increasingly morally questionable things until Malcolm finally says enough is enough and runs to Jessica to help stop Jeri from getting involved in whatever she's involved in. Getting Malcolm to reconcile with Jessica, well, that's probably gonna be complicated by Trish because Trish is always going to be more important to Jessica than Malcolm, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a point where Jess tries to rehabilitate Trish, and Malcolm initially has issues with that.

What's this I'm hearing about JJ Season 2 pulling a Daredevil? (the first half was good, the second half sucked?)

Six Deadly Words? Somebody became The Scrappy? Conflicting messages from Jessica's character? Bad performances? Incoherent storyline?

edited 11th May '18 8:00:00 AM by Soble

Casting rumors for season 3 are starting to fly around, suggesting a late 2019 release for Jessica Jones season 3. It'll probably be the next show after The Punisher season 2. Considering the source of the leaks has had some accurate casting call information (and some casting calls they acquired last year during season 2's production turned out to be accurate casting calls for Dr. Karl Malus, for Inez Green, and for Oscar), I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

@Soble: It's because many of us feel that the ways they broke up the the Scooby Gang of this show were very similar to how season 2 of Daredevil went all scorched earth on its Scooby Gang (as Deborah Ann Woll has described it). Christine Hannefik, the author of the blog The Other Murdock Papers, describes it best:

Did you end your viewing of Daredevil season two wondering how these characters [Matt, Karen and Foggy] were ever going to patch things up after all the hurt they all inflicted on one another? Even knowing that things would probably get better in future seasons, things were pretty bad. Now imagine the writers of this season of Jessica Jones seeing that and going “Hold my beer!” Because what the writers do to Malcolm and Trish, the latter in particular, and their respective relationships with Jessica was just… I don’t even know how to put it. There is no way Trish and Jessica can come back from this. In fact, even trying to bring them back together at this point would just cheapen what happened in this story. The scene at the end of the season where Trish discovers her Hellcat powers could have been a fun moment. Instead, Trish being written as a horrible person for the latter half of the season kills most of the excitement for me. They pretty much destroyed her character. For what? Shock value? Explain to me why the story needed it. Trish’s treatment here is the one thing that brings down the hopes I have for a successful third season-

The difference is that at least Daredevil DID have a period in which the team was working successful together. Jessica Jones didn't even get there. So I feel even more cheated when Jessica Jones did it than I felt when Daredevil did it. I know that Jessica is supposed to be film noir, and that doesn't necessarily lend itself to happy endings, but for a TV show, you do need the good times to contrast the bad times.

Jessica is even less able to fake positive emotions than Matt

I also admit...what I kind of expected from the season was Jessica looking into her past, maybe because Trish pressured her to do so, but whatever she figures out by doing so doesn't give her any closure at all, leading to the realisation that she need to tackle the feelings which are inside her instead of constantly deflecting them on others. This is what would have made sense for season 2.

But that they didn't do something else is not what bothered me. No, what bothered me is what I call the "Sherlock effect". That's when a season manages to kind of ruin what came beforehand. And this is what we have here. With all the recons they did, they ruined Trish, they ruined everything they did with so brilliantly with Simmons, they ruined Malcolm, they even ruined Jessica's most basic psychological problem, the feeling that she was responsible for the accident.

-long whistle-

I never cared much for Iron Fist or Jessica Jones' respective shows ^note  lack of punching, didn't know if any villain would surpass Kilgrave, didn't know much about the character, not a fan of the "superhero comic book fantasies r dumb" attitude parroted by Jessica, Wolverine, and Luke to a degree, but out of all four shows at least this one seemed to have it's head on straight. I had personal grievances with it but I rarely if ever heard anything bad about it.

Until now, I guess.

edited 11th May '18 11:52:03 AM by Soble