Suggestion: Villainous Valour

For clarity, BUPKIS means "inherently difficult to illustrate" not "we haven't found a good illustration".

I don't think "requires a caption" is an absolute strike against an image to the point where no image is preferable. As such I prefer 24.

Technically BUPKIS just means voting on no image while leaving the option open for one is one is found, rather than voting for no image ever.

Oh no, I didn't imply that BUPKIS means "no image ever". For clarity, my point is that leaving the possibility open for a good image is already the norm for every page, including ones already pictured. Lately there's been a trend in declaring a trope a BUPKIS case when there's just no image because of lack of activity, not because there's nothing viable out there.

24 is a bit small for my liking but the original is definitely too big. Given the size of the intro, I think a 250 or 275 px width would be a good compromise.

Maybe as a caption "The blackest of hearts may make the noblest of stands when needed."?

edited 4th Nov '15 6:27:18 AM by Willbyr

I think I like OP more than 24.

24 doesn't look villainous at all. He looks like The Big Guy to me. His expression isn't even that malicious, and the enemies look straight up evil.

OP... isn't a great image either, but a passing knowledge of sentai makes me pretty sure the colorful guys are good, and the guy in black is bad. It's a better illustration than it is am image, though... I really don't like the picture.

The problems (so far)

OP: You'd need knowledge on Sentai in order to know that the guy in black is a bad guy.

24: The enemies the character look outright evil.

Clock is set.

I think including a link to Evil Versus Evil in the caption could address the problem with 24.

Might as well not have an image if you need a trope pothole for it to work.

I don't think any of the suggestions work.

There has never been a requirement that an image must be able to stand alone and not rely on its caption at all. "I don't like that solution" or "I don't think that solution is good enough" are fine, but "that solution is invalid" is ridiculous. Several captions are even essential for the page image to make sense, and that's okay, so of course one piece of information that clarifies one aspect of the image is okay too.

edited 4th Dec '15 6:22:54 PM by rodneyAnonymous

It's invalid because it's a bad solution that proves that the image is not very illustrative on its own. That specific suggestion isn't very good even with the caption, anyway.

edited 4th Dec '15 6:24:39 PM by Karxrida

It's definitely valid, regardless of whether you find it convincing. An argument being true/false and an argument being valid/invalid are separate and unrelated questions.

The image is illustrative, but it's not perfect: the enemies looking Obviously Evil is a flaw. "The existence of a possible solution proves there is a problem" is true of any solution to any problem, that's totally a tautology.

edited 5th Dec '15 2:14:01 AM by rodneyAnonymous

The problem was already identified (the villain is not evil at first glance and is fighting skeletons, traditionally evil foes that make him look heroic), what I was saying that your solution highlights the problem further. A good picture would not need a potholed caption to tell people "no guys, he's totes evil and not a good guy".

edited 4th Dec '15 6:40:25 PM by Karxrida

No, a great image wouldn't need such a pothole. A "good enough" image can probably get by with a caption elaborating. I don't think we should spite the good for want of the perfect.

(Although I'm ambivalent toward 24 either way, tbh)

I agree with rodney's assessment.

Also agreed, while not perfect and caption-dependent it's better than nothing.

Maybe spell it out as a link, instead of a pothole:

The Evil Versus Evil last stand of Skurge the Executioner.

I could go along with that.

That could work in concept, but it feels clunky just using the trope name like that.

"Even the most evil of villains can be admired, sometimes."

It does sum up the trope, but it might work, and makes it clear that the guy is definitely evil.

The clock is up, the discussion about the caption for the Thor character suggestion is going nowhere, and there's not enough consensus for it to run without a caption. Locking up.