Spider-Man: Homecoming

RDJ has gone back and forth on whether or not he'll be done. Recently he said he'd even be open to returning for an Iron Man 4, even though he's spent like four years saying no more Iron Man movies.

His contract ends at Avengers 4, but it also didn't include Homecoming so, y'know. Plans change.

edited 28th Jul '17 11:07:11 PM by TobiasDrake

Fair enough.

But as I believe I've said before, while l didn't mind the presence of Iron Man, I felt like it detracted from other elements I wanted to see, so I personally hope he doesn't show up.

In a lot of ways, it did feel less like a Spider-Man movie and more like a Robin movie

Woah, Robert Downey said he's giving up the character? That's surprising, I mean being Iron Man basically made him into a household name, and everybody loves his portrayal. I think it would be a huge shame if he quit playing the role.

He can't keep doing it forever.

Its like with Hugh Jackman & Wolverine. No matter how much they love there roles, eventually they just get tired.

It all has to end sometime.

edited 28th Jul '17 11:45:17 PM by slimcoder

Sorry, but no, there is nothing similar between the way MJ is used in the movie and the way they first meet in the comics. Mainly because in the comics, it was Aunt May who really wanted Peter and her to meet, Mary Jane just gave it a shot, she wasn't stalking Peter like Michelle does.

I really, really hope that they will take a huge step back from Michelle and instead shelve the whole Mary Jane issue until Peter is in college.

Both the actor and the character are getting older. Tony is actually the best candidate for dying in Infinity War 2.

edited 29th Jul '17 1:02:55 AM by Swanpride

I don't find Michelle's behavior all that stalkerish - at least no more stalkerish than most teenagers. It's been a few years since I was in high school, but typically you were always keeping tabs on your crush through mutual friends or rumor mills - what classes or clubs they're in, if they're into anybody, occasionally feverishly check their facebook for a relationship status; that's just the world we live in now, that information's sometimes out there, might as well check it out.

Additionally, as someone that went to magnet schools in both middle school and high school I can tell you they're a lot smaller than normal high schools; the student pool isn't that big, everybody vaguely knows each other well enough that you can group people according to clubs or cliques - especially by senior year (I forget what year Peter's supposed to be). Basically, it isn't unfeasible to look at Michelle's behavior and say that she's kept tabs on Peter because she does genuinely like him and it's remarkably easy to know what's going on with almost anyone in the relatively small student body. From my own experience, I could probably have fished for the same information Michelle does just by talking to a few peers casually about what's going on around school; talk to my pals in the band, or the theatre department, or the yearbook or whoever and find out he's ditching clubs. Word gets around about that kind of stuff. She obviously makes a big point of it because she likes him, but ya'know fuck it - you're gonna be creepy and awkward, it's high school, that's what it's for.

Granted I'm not in favor of the whole MJ thing either, but that's mainly because I've never cared much for MJ to begin with, Michelle is an in-name-only adaptation, and I personally think Black Cat is the best Spider Man love interest because she's just cool.

Knowing what your crush is up to is one thing. Spending your time in detention watching him is crossing a line.

Plus, I simply dislike the idea that MJ is all hung up on Peter and Peter is the one not noticing her, the whole point of Mary Jane is that SHE is the one who is actually too good for Peter. And can you imagine how uncomfortable it will be if after all the years of Peter ignoring Michelle he suddenly changes his mind when she becomes "beautiful"? What a great message to send to teens.

Eh, like I said, she's not a good representation of Mary Jane whatsoever. I definitely agree with you there, the roles are a little switcheroo'd. Then again, creepy Peter oogling a traditional MJ or even Liz in the movie doesn't come across as much better. It's high school - everyone's a creepazoid, that's what make teenage relationship dynamics in media funny.

Michelle as her own character - barring any MJ factors - is alright in my book, and no creepier than Peter himself or anyone else. She's more of a fun cutaway gag on repeat than a proper character with depth and motivation, but she's charming in her own way. And if we're being honest, everyone matures into a more "beautiful" version of themselves over time anyway, that's life. Fact is the people we become is sometimes more attractive and better suited for someone than the person we were. Just because Michelle might grow out of her edgy antisocial phase into someone else just means she's changing and growing as a person. And romance is stupid, you can be Oblivious to Love for years before it hits you that the right person has been there all along and you were too stupid to notice; it often has very little to do with that person suddenly becoming attractive or whatever.

I dunno where they're taking her story, but as a standalone original character Michelle's okay. As Mary Jane...I'm largely with you, she's not a good fit for the character as she is in the comics and making her character to be more like MJ over time could come across as forced. I don't want them to abandon Michelle completely - but definitely abandon this MJ dynamic; it detracts more than it adds.

The only thing that confuses me is why do her friends call her MJ if her name is Michelle and not Mary Jane? I guess her name could Michelle Jane Watson but then what's the point of even making her MJ when she's clearly a different character?

Anyway other than that I like that she's really different from past incarnations; what's the point of making an adaptation if you're just gonna do the same exact thing that's already been done dozens of times? I wouldn't mind if MJ were a middle-aged woman who gives Peter samples from the butcher shop. Now that'd be fresh.

Her last name is Jones. Hence the initials MJ

Honestly, I didn't want to see MJ at all at this point. In the comics, Peter was still with Gwen Stacy when he was in high school. While I would skip the whole Gwen Stacy story since we already had her in the last adaptation, it doesn't really matter if you give Peter a love interest and who said love interest is supposed to be. Just let him date around a little bit until he meets his one true love in MJ.

I guess the ideas was to merge the whole "Jessica Jones had a crush on Peter Parker" storyline with MJ, but I don't think that it truly works.

I thought Peter didn't meet Gwen until college.

His high school love interests was Betty Brant with Liz Allen constantly accidentally messing that up for him because she liked him too

Then he met Gwen in college and after that he met MJ

And after that he has some love interests nobody cares about

Adaptations change things around though

That is very accurate. Fans just like to call Gwen Peter's First Love, and MJ his True Love or something to that effect

And they call Felicia Hardy, "Who?"

._. I'll be over here with my lonely SpiderCat shipping pennant.

Felicia is fine I guess

Writers seldom know what to do with her though. Or with any of Peter's love interests honestly.

Isn't she a definitely evil mob boss now? What's up with that?

Yeah. Doc Ock possessing Spider-Man's body punched out one of her teeth so she turned evil forever. It's exactly as stupid as it sounds.

She'll be back, though. People always talk about the illusion of change in comics, but they're wrong. Permanency is the illusion. Nothing is final. Nothing is absolute. Everything changes.

edited 29th Jul '17 10:34:53 AM by TobiasDrake

Like most things it was handled better in Silk

She was a week from retirement and when she was arrested she lost her nest egg and figured 'eh fuck it'

I just can't get over how easy it is to become a mob boss. It's something you can do on a whim in the Marvel Universe.

I blame the Punisher. In a world where the Punisher is a thing, running a crime syndicate is like trying to staff a McDonalds. The turnover rate is murder.

edited 29th Jul '17 10:39:16 AM by TobiasDrake

She also became top dog or a top dog already. Like with entire groups of people working for her, doing all the big deals, hiring big-time assassins & guys like Hammerhead as her enforcer.

In this case Kingpin is outta town but it is rather stupid how a thief can just suddenly gain so much power & influence in such a short amount of time.

Booooo.

Years in the career, she had all the connections and knew all the players.

Also, this is a world where a reporter could become a mob boss while also being a reporter.

EDIT: Never mind.

edited 29th Jul '17 11:06:49 AM by Draghinazzo

given her connection to not just Spider-Man but various heroes, she should have been rendered toxic to all villains.

@Tobias Everyone knows Felicia is Cindy's true love.