The Islamophobia Thread

That thing where you had such a bad experience with your origins and are so bitter towards them that your criticism ends up spilling over into bigotry and prejudice through presenting the flaws you observe as inherent to the religion/people and as sweeping generalizations.

re Quebec: Yup, that's the province I remember. I'm about as white as it gets but that's almost the precise reason I'm not too upset about leaving: there's always been a slightly off-putting ethnonationalist bent there.

Meanwhile, in Poland, white nationlaists rallying in Warsaw carried banners with messages including "praying for an Islamic Holocaust.

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here, Handle. You are basically saying that the hypocritical actions of one guy make the entire belief system obsolete, invalidating the actions of any number of other people who are equally progressive, but not hypocrites.

But logically, if Islam was worth defending a month ago, it's still worth defending today, and the flaws of specific individuals who are attempting to reform it are not directly relevent to the validity of the ideas they were espousing.

Sugar is still sweet even if Hitler liked it. More accurately, an idea is still meaningful or true (or not) independent of the individual people who espouse it (or oppose it). Progressive Islam would ony be invalidated if the principles or practice of progressive Islam itself contributed to the sexual abuse, but that isn't what I understand is happening.

Of course, if one actually already believes in a diety, then that belief remains even if his/her prophets turn out to have feet of clay.

So what you're saying is, even if his arguments were made in bad faith (ha), by a bad man, that doesn't make them bad themselves?

I shot the message, but I didn't shoot the grand Marquis, oh, no, ohh.

edited 12th Nov '17 11:18:02 PM by TheHandle

Don't Shoot the Message and all that.

Then man was a lie, not his ideas. If it turned out that Darwin had secretly been a creationist, it wouldn't invalidate the Theory of Evolution either.

A bad person can make a good argument for bad reasons.

Honestly this is kind of confusing to me, did you not think that there were bad Muslims out there Handle? Because Muslims are people so every crime that Non-Muslims have committed throughout history has also been committed by Muslims.

edited 13th Nov '17 8:28:14 AM by Fourthspartan56

And vice versa. If we assume this man's behaviour is indicative of being Muslim, what does the existence of a lot of the worst of the New Atheists say about us godless heathens? Because there are leaders in that movement as rape happy as any believer.

Why do you think I dropped that movement like a hot potato? That, and the islamophobia and just general bigotry. And the privileged Libertarianism.

These days, I'm running out of causes fast.

And you misunderstand. It's not "One Muslim is a rapist, therefore Islam is doomed". It's "the one authority figure who provided arguments I could believe about Islam not sucking inherently and in fact being pretty cool if not for the ruinous distortions of unethical bigots, turns out to have been lying scum all along, discrediting his previous work and leaving me bereft of reasons why Islam doesn't suck". Don't Shoot the Message is hard to do when the message is about morality and righteousness and the messenger is thoroughly unrighteous.

Finding out that George Takei is a rapist does not deter me from supporting LGBT, because GT was neither the first nor the last reason that motivated me to be an ally to them.

edited 13th Nov '17 9:21:16 AM by TheHandle

Then I submit it is time for you to abandon your stance as a follower, and become the leader you are looking for. You make the arguments you believe in, and be the messenger worthy of that message.

After all, that's what I did ; )

The Swiss canton of St.Gallen issues a "Burka" ban with 59 to 54 votes. All thanks to the Christian Peope's Party joining with the nationalistic Swiss People's Party in the parliamentary vote. Link in German

<sighs> Could they be more stereotypical? <facepalm>

A judge has suspended the Quebec face-covering law, over it being too vague, until clear guidelines for enforcement are in place. Said guidelines aren't expected to be there until next summer, which should give people time to challenge it on human rights grounds (and hopefully get it struck down outright. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/judge-grants-stay-of-bill-62-1.4429199

Muslims Will Replace Jews as America's Second-Largest Religious Group By 2040.

This has interesting implications for Islamophobia in that country. "...Despite this, hate crimes and assaults against Muslim Americans are increasing each year. There were more assaults against Muslim Americans in 2016 than in 2001, the year of the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon..."

That last statement is from a new study by the Pew Research Center: "The number of assaults against Muslims in the United States rose significantly between 2015 and 2016, easily surpassing the modern peak reached in 2001, the year of the September 11 terrorist attacks..."

As these two trends continue, the conditions for culture-clash and confrontation are only going to rise. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the political arena, esp. as Muslim voters become more influential.

In(s)ane.

Does the study take in account the fact that September is rather late in the year?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42804202

Everyone is surprised to hear Arthur Wagner became a Muslim.

edited 25th Jan '18 12:13:34 AM by Ominae

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Yeah, I got nothing either. WTH???

Yes, that I flatly don't believe.

Unless the party's anti-muslim stance isn't actually about islam.

<Looks at a photo of Arthur Wagner>

Yeah, I can guess why they aren't too bothered by this.

His damn last name is enough.

Why? Antisemite?

Fedora-wearing neckbeard?