Kingsman

I've not seen that Abe Lincoln vampire hunter thing, so I can't comment on it, but the crux of the issue for me is...fucking Hitler.

Like, using *Hitler* so flippantly like that, with the ridiculous stinger and the blatant false equivalency (Lenin strengthens the left, Hitler strengthens the right, setting up for WWII and shit) that already ties into how the Kingsman movies have some pretty mixed politics at best...it makes me nauseous.

I'd have been fine if they just excised Lenin and Hitler entirely. It wouldn't have fixed the movie but it would've been less politically reprehensible.

I dunno, Mel Brooks (and many other Jewish comedians) believes Hitler should be used flippantly. In every possible way. Treating Hitler seriously is giving him too much credit. He should be mocked and treated as the most ridiculous stupid ranting moron as ever existed.

Because if you treat the Nazis as geniuses ready to take over the world but evil, then you've fallen into fascist traps. Because the kind of people who like Nazis don't care about the morality of it.

That's just how I was taught it at least.

yeah but Mel Brooks knew how to be funny and how to ridicule Hitler,the guys who wrote Kingsman thought they were being were funny but they were'nt

Yeah no, we're not doing the Mel Brooks strawman.

In Kingsman's case, it's not even being used as a punchline. There is no joke. It's just...oh boy, Hitler's here, setting up a conspiracy to lead to WWII like this movie is getting a sequel or something. The only humor in it is from how it takes itself *too* seriously and it comes off ridiculous.

That's kind of what the movie seemed to be leading up to with the whole conspiracy thing though?

At least they didn't include Stalin alongside Hitler,then again if they make a sequel they predictably will so

Using Lenin is close enough.

Perhaps. I don't think anyone can talk Wolfenstein: The New Order's treatment of Hitler as a peeing deranged old man who kills Ronald Reagan.

This came out a while ago, but apparently there is going to be a sequel to Kings man titled 'The traitor king'.

It was also said that originally the King's man was supposed to be a tv series, rather then a film.

Given how long it takes for each movie to come out, will be seeing it in 2026 probably.

I like the past setting, so I'm looking forward to it whenever it gets made. Kinda wish we'd get more Eggsy, but man that second movie fucked up a lot of the setting's potential ihmo.

There's also supposed to be a film to complete the Eggys/Hary Hart trilogy that has a script at least.

I don't mind The Golden Circle so long as I skip the Glastonbury scene but they did Roxy dirty killing her off without even a proper action scene to her name.

The Kings Man though I just found deeply unpleasant to watch. You can't mix the wacky spy stuff with the horrors of trench warfare without it being deeply jarring.

Edited by dcutter2 on Jan 9th 2024 at 10:46:13 AM

I do wonder, in retrospect, if we weren't too hard to The King's Man for being historically innaccurate.

It was, definitely, but at the same time it's not trying to be historically accurate.

> The Kings Man though I just found deeply unpleasant to watch. You can't mix the wacky spy stuff with the horrors of trench warfare without it being deeply jarring.

I think I've mentioned this before but it felt like two different movies mashed together,jarring does'nt begin to describe that mess of a film

I can see that. There’s also a difference between being pulpy about real-life events and atrocities. It’s kinda hard to be wacky when they got into this because their son died. Even other pulp throwbacks like Indiana Jones or Inglorious Bastards still recognize the great evils of war and Nazi Germany without pulling a Beethoven Was an Alien Spy on the deaths of thousands.

Edited by CanuckMcDuck1 on Jan 9th 2024 at 8:14:44 AM

I'm hard on it for being idiotic about its disregard for accuracy to the point that it tries equating Lenin with HITLER. That's not just inaccuracy, it's fucking abhorrent centrism. Treating Hitler like an MCU post-credits cameo goes beyond pulpy fun to disgusting.

And even if I disregard how part of the plot hinges on keeping Russia in the war and making light apologia for the Tsardom, the movie is a tonally confused mess where it says "War bad!" and "Honor the lives lost in WWI, for God, King, and Country!" Like, this is blatant apologia for WWI with disgusting British nationalism, and it pisses me off. How can you have a movie that depicts the concentration camps during the Second Boer War and tries condemning war, while also saying "But we must honor those who sacrificed their lives for British imperialism!", with a plot hinging on keeping the Entente together to win the war?

It's grotesque is what it is. It's about as subtle a propaganda film as Rocky IV or Ip Man. And the worst part is it's SO BORING. Are there *ANY* good action sequences in this film beyond the Rasputin fight?

Edited by Diana1969 on Jan 9th 2024 at 1:57:22 PM

Looking back on the original film I'm disappointed how far the sequels have fallen quality wise,if this trend continues the next sequel will be even worse!

I'm actually surprised by how much hate I've seen people give towards the church scene in the first film. It went from a massively hyped action piece to ridiculed as amateurish and poorly done.

Like...even that I don't quite understand beyond that Vaughn has shot his reputation in the foot with The King's Man. I barely see any hype for Argylle (more mockery than anything), and he's lost a lot of the luster he'd earned with Kick-Ass, First Class, and the first Kingsman. I think only Kick-Ass has come out unscathed as far as reputation goes.

Edited by Diana1969 on Jan 9th 2024 at 3:50:07 AM

Well I wouldn’t say turn, but most of his projects have had muted responses since then. There’s also Layer Cake, which I’ve still heard good things about.

But honestly, even when they were going to make the prequel, I thought it was unnecessary, even before it kept being pushed back. Argyle just feels like a Flanderization of what he was trying to do with Kingsman.

And apparently Vaughn is already talking about doing sequels to Argylle and tying it into Kingsman.

Like...don't count your chickens before they hatch, man. See how Argylle does first.

The cynic in me says he does'nt care at this point,he's got like three films and thus a franchise and all he has to do make more films connected with Kingsman for his franchise to be successful

I wonder if they are going to have Erik Jan Hanussen be the new films Big Bad or have Hitler be The Starscream on him. Sense his real world counterpart was murdered before world war 2 actually started.

If they decide to keep him as the main antagonist(As I hope they do because I like Daniel Bruhl) they could do a 'he fakes his death' thing. Or they might just just..ignore it, sense from what I have read on this site and elsewhere, the films take on Erik has almost nothing in common with his historical counterpart. Apparently the real guy at the time was a travelling charlatan and showman, he definitely was not the Kaiser's right hand man XD.

Edited by Snoketrope on Jan 10th 2024 at 2:57:59 AM

I really like The King's Man. Definitely got a lot of tonal issues though. One of your major villains attributing viciously to a war effort has a dance fight for God's sake. Haha.

Also, takes balls to Sequel Hook Hitler, but I do react with incredulity though. I definitely question the tact behind that decision. Haha.

Edited by futuremoviewriter on Jan 11th 2024 at 11:04:32 AM