The comments lit up TV channels and Twitter, where they were relished by the far-left and far-right, who are keen to cast Macron, a former investment banker, as out of touch with the common man and a president for the rich.
Florian Philippot, until recently the number two in the far-right National Front party, described Macron as having “contempt” for France’s lower-income workers.
A similar accusation was leveled by Clementine Autain, a lawmaker from the far-left France Unbowed party.
“It shows a great class contempt,” she said. “He can’t stop coming out with unfair comments targeting the masses.”
Macron’s new spokesman, former journalist Bruno Roger-Petit, was quick to post the full video of Macron’s exchange on Twitter, saying some outlets and opponents were circulating extracts that made the president sound worse than was the case.
“Truncated and taken out of context,” he said of snippets on social media. “Emmanuel Macron was underlining that the search for solutions on jobs is everyone’s responsibility.”
It is not the first time Macron has sparked controversy with his language and then shown little sign of contrition.
While his often erudite speeches are laced with literary references that show off his elite education, he has a tendency to use dismissive words in off-the-cuff comments that critics say make him sound arrogant.
Last month, as he was finalizing changes to France’s labor rules to make hiring and firing easier, he said he would not bow to “slackers” who resist reform.
In July, visiting a high-tech start-up center in Paris, he talked about “those who succeed and those who are nothing”.
And in 2016, when confronted by angry unionists while he was economy minister, Macron was recorded saying: “You don’t scare me with your t-shirt. The best way of paying for a suit is to work.”
Spikey language has dogged French presidents in the past.
Nicolas Sarkozy caused uproar while interior minister in 2005 when he branded youths behind the worst urban violence in France in decades as “scum”, a comment that haunted him as president.
And Francois Hollande was accused by his former partner of referring to the poor as “toothless”, undermining his efforts to portray himself as a friend of the needy.
edited 5th Oct '17 8:02:29 AM by Quag15
Considering his vocabulary in every single speech or interview, believing that these words ("foutre le bordel") weren't premeditated would be incredibly naive. He knew cameras were there, and he ensured the right (so, the second largest parliamentary group after his own) would be unable to produce any kind of opposition during the vote on his economic reforms - which means that only the hard left remains.
Hollande did not speak in front of a camera. Sarkozy's was clearly impulsive and damaging for his image. In that case, it was completely controlled.
Not endorsing it, just stating that those who cried foul did exactly what Macron wanted.
United Earth
How does that work? Why would Macron want people jumping down his throat?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Whenever Macron says something any LR member would say, it makes it even harder for them to convince voters that they are different, especially as his PM comes from LR, and two prominent ministers (Budget & Economy) also originated from this party. So they have to become even more extreme to simply exist.
Basically, by doing this, Macron is pushing LR further and further on the right, making it really freaking hard to distinguish them from the FN on some issues. Which means that some moderates might find it easier in the future to vote for En Marche instead of their traditional right-wing party.
The future boss of LR is Laurent Wauquiez, a detestable man who is very, very, very far on the right (significantly further than Sarkozy, which is really saying something).
edited 11th Oct '17 2:00:06 PM by Julep
United Earth
`So basically Macron means to take over the...
Oh. An actual smart centrist strategy. What a Magnificent Bastard.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Classic Centrist outflanking tactic, go left or right as the wind blows. Become everyone's 2nd choice. Ideally while actually running the country well, public isn't that stupid.
....Apart from one or two decade, this worked wonders for the Canadian Liberals
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Will people stop staying Macron is a centrist?
United Earth
All centrists are clever rightwingers.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Oh, bother.
At the most basic level, a centrist is just someone who still believes in a market-based economy but doesn't want to toss the poor away like garbage.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Exactly....most centrist a very conservative in economic matters, but also aware that humans are a resource which has to be protected and they tend to be very liberal in most matters. Also, they are not totally anti-environment.
I would say that Macron is a centrist.
Since he has shown he views the poor as just lazy, he's not a centrist, he's just another of those right-wing plutocrats.
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
United Earth
There's still a difference between a Liberal right-winger and a Conservative one. One of them doesn't want to tell you what to do with your private life, as long as you make them money.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It's just an adoption of the idea that liberals are centrists as opposed to 'oh yeah, it's fine to express your sexuality, gender or ethnic background proudly, as long as you're willing to slave away to capitalist exploitation with everyone else. Back to work, plebians!'
It's the same right-wing contempt for the poor and underprivileged, they're just slightly less dicks about it.
edited 13th Oct '17 4:48:39 AM by math792d
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
One would have to ask someone who speaks French fluently about the nuances, but I actually understood it as him thinking that the workers didn't show enough initiative on their own or being too married with whatever job they have, and not him thinking that poor people are simply lazy.
And yes, I know that it sometimes isn't a matter of not being "flexible" enough, and that one shouldn't make a general judgement, though the point that people who think creative have better chances on the job market is a fair one.
Anyway, isn't that the point of being centrist? Being somewhere in the balance between "who cares about the poor" and "let's pump every cent in the social system so that everyone has an equal measure of wealth"? One doesn't have to like a centrist position, but it is still centrist....especially once you consider what passes as right-wing in France.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Julep, Medinoc and I are French. I'm sure there are a few other French tropers, and some other francophones (both native and non-native).
Ah, I only knew that Julep is French. So....looking at the exact quote, what is your judgement? Did he say that they are "lazy" or that they "lack initiative"?
What Macron says is "foutre le bordel" (which is somewhat stronger than the translation "make a bloody mess" I've seen in the article Quag linked. Also, he interrupts the other person (a journalist, I assume). I see that as contempt for the workers who are losing their jobs (then again, I've made it clear where I stand politically). In any case, this quote doesn't say either "lazy" or "lack initiative".
United Earth
That's the one about how the path to a nice suit is hard work.
It's the old myth of meritocracy.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
True...it should be "hard work, education and a pinch of luck".
edited 13th Oct '17 8:07:41 AM by Swanpride
I mean, what's the point of the relativism? Af D being a far right party doesn't make the CSU suddenly a centrist party. Just because Le Pen is looking to bring back the Vichy regime doesn't make Macron any less right-wing.
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Very much this.
It's not relativism, it's the centre...you might be able to argue if he might be centre-right, is some issues, but he is still overall a centrist.
Or what do you think a centrist should be like?
What Macron says is "foutre le bordel" (which is somewhat stronger than the translation "make a bloody mess" I've seen in the article Quag linked. Also, he interrupts the other person (a journalist, I assume). I see that as contempt for the workers who are losing their jobs (then again, I've made it clear where I stand politically). In any case, this quote doesn't say either "lazy" or "lack initiative".I don't think it is contempt, but more of a dissonance, or a failure to understand the harshness of those workers' situation.
I mean, sure, going forward when dealt a hardship sounds like the sensible thing to do - in that case, looking for a new job. Macron is young, well-educated, and upper-class, so of course if someone like him were to lose his job, with some effort he would find something different. But blue collars tend not to be able to switch jobs in short order, not because they are dumb or lazy, but because they are specialized. Also, low income means that it's harder to move somewhere else to find a new job.
And France is not Germany, we don't have industrial sites everywhere. This one, GM&S, is located in the county of Creuse, which is (in)famous for being one of the most rural and least populated counties in France - in fact, only the Lozère is less populated, and Lozère & Guyana less densely populated. When Jean de La Fontaine got "expelled" from the Royal Court under Louis XIV, his punishment was to be sent to the Creuse because it already was a remote place (back when agriculture was super dominant). One possible explanation for its name (which is also the name of a river) is "Deep Valley".
So, basically, finding new jobs here for blue collars would be insanely difficult.
@centrism: Honestly, is it even possible to be economically centrist at the moment? It seems that either you support or oppose capitalism. If you are a "Yes, but..." supporter of capitalism, then you are considered a capitalist, so right-wing.
Politically, Macron is centrist because A) he doesn't follow the most extreme "fuck the poor let's get money" lines unlike a Wauquiez or Fillon and B) on social questions he is more liberal in the North-American meaning of the term, which puts him more on the left.
But actually, you can't really be a centrist on social issues either. You are liberal or conservative, with various degrees of moderation or extremism. It's rare to find someone who can qualify as "centrist" on these issues.
edited 13th Oct '17 8:54:36 AM by Julep
He's very much right-winged when he comes to police and surveillance, though.
"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."
Currently Germany is taking care of Mali for France so that they have their hands free. But having an European army doesn't necessarily mean that the states involved have no additional troops at all.