Mass Effect General Discussion (spoilers)

I don't blame Jack for who she was for most of ME 2 but she was who she was and that is somebody without any real heroic traits. She joined the mission in order to hunt down and kill Cerberus personel. She couldn't care less about all the people being abducted.

Anyway, some more choices....

James: Paragon

Garrus: This one seems to depend on what you do with Sidonis. I'll say Paragrade.

Kasumi: Paragon. She's kinda like Jacob in this regard. Jacob works for Cerberus and that's about the most you can damn him in terms of morality. Similarly Kasumi being a thief is the only "Renegade-ish" thing she does. She's a very sweet person.

I'm beginning to feel like there aren't enough Renegade people, especially in ME 1 and 3. Who in the ME 3 squad would even be Renegade?

Javik. Javik is Renegade Shepard up to eleven.

And Garrus is defined in this wiki as "Paragade Shepard who happens to not be the main character". His aligment changes depending on how you interact with him (as far back as 1, where you can steer him one way or the other depending on how you tackle the Dr. Heart situation).

Huh, Javik? Casually suggesting murder or torture as the best way to solve things should have clued you.

I don't have From Ashes. I plan to get it next month for when I replay ME 3 but other than the fact everyoen finds him hilarious and he has a weird accent, and that he's a Prothean, I know nothing of him.

"Weird Accent?" His voice actor is Nigerian. It's not that strange.

I just meant he has an accent that really stands out to people. I guess I should have just said "strong accent."

On the ME1 side, the two people most Renegade are probably Wrex (clearly) and Ashley — she's in many ways a contrast to the more Paragon Alliance member Kaidan. Garrus also tends to be pretty Renegade, though you can try to convince him of doing things the "right way". However, you also have the option, if romancing him, of "hardening" Kaidan via an Charm/Intimidate check, which will drastically change his outlook. If done, if I remember correctly he'll actually advocate sacrificing the Council over Wrex. Sadly, this development (and Ashley's similar one) is pretty much ignored by the third game.

I think ME1 has enough, considering its relatively smaller cast, even if Kaidan doesn't really "count".

edited 28th Mar '15 8:57:44 AM by Lavaeolus

The ME 1 cast is on a pretty clear spectrum, considering one companion will always advocate the more Renegade option, and one the more Paragon.

If I remember right, it's something like Wrex, Ashley, Garrus, Kaidan, Tali, Liara. So, for example, if your party is Wrex and Ashley, Wrex will always recommend the renegade choices, and Ashley the Paragon. But if it's, say, Kaidan and Ashley, she'll seem Renegade instead.

ME 1 will always have a squadmate go Renegade and another go Paragon when a choice is present, and they follow a spectrum, with Kaidan being the most Paragon one, then Liara, Tali, Garrus, Ashley and finally Wrex, who always advocates for the Renegade solution.

Javik is awesome except for the on-disc DLC issue. And is a must for the Thessia mission.

Yeah I remember hearing about the roulette squadmate thing back when i played ME 1. For example, when we met the Rachni Queen, Wrex was for killing her once and for all and Liara was for sparing her. This makes sense for both of them. But if I had brought someone other than Wrex, they would have fulfilled the same role but without the in-character justification.

I'll see what everyone likes about Javik in a week. I'll definitely try and use him. I didn't really like the ME 3 squad anyway so a new party member be welcome.

Hell, I'll have 2 new squad members since I'll have Ashley this time instead of Kaidan. Kaidan got a lot better in 3, maybe Ash will do the same.

edited 28th Mar '15 9:08:16 AM by Nikkolas

Three if Tali doesn't die, if I remember right.

Good point! I'm definitely gonna try and keep her alive this time. Just gotta Paragon that shit up and when the time comes hopefully I'll have enough Points to yell at the admirals.

Apparently it also helps to keep the one guy alive...the one from Tali's recruit mission. And this time I let them take Veetor home instead of giving him to Cerberus. That's supposed to do something too.

Also I'll send Tali to escort the Normandy Crew during the Suicide Mission.. I hear that's the best thing to ensure her survival.

edited 28th Mar '15 9:12:55 AM by Nikkolas

Kaidan and Ashley get the short end of the stick in 3, not much interaction all in all (although hungover Ashley is golden).

Tali is quite neat in 3, she and Garrus (and Liara sometimes) hit a quite neat degree of True Companions by then.

That's the good thing with 3, the squadmates interacting with each other.

Oh, and if you save both Veetor and Kal'Reegar, you don't need points. You can just rally the crowd, get them to yell at the admirals as well, and get the golden ending of that mission.

edited 28th Mar '15 9:14:19 AM by Eriorguez

Oh. Well that would be good. This time, to take down the Colossus, I'm just gonna bring along my old friend the M-920 Cain.

Although, really, let's talk serious here. Everyone is all "make peace between teh geth and quarians is the right way." But how long will this peace last? I trust the geth to keep it but I don't trust the quarians. They have proven to be opportunistic and vengeful.

Granted, now they have their home planet back maybe they'll stop being assholes. But I wouldn't be surrpised in this hypothetical ME 4 set a few centuries later that the quarians and geth are at war again.

edited 28th Mar '15 9:19:43 AM by Nikkolas

If you can stomach it, you could try to deliberately kill some of your crew in the second game to get some new content. Mordin probably gets the most dialogue change, if not the most actual impact on the game's events.

On quarians and geth, it's important to remember most quarians don't know much about geth. Shepard is the only one who really gets to see the geth as a people, meanwhile the whole galaxy (quarians included) just knows them as "murderous robots who kill everyone who comes near and killed half a species", fairly or not (note: almost every party member is upset if you sacrifice the quarians, while only EDI really is upset the geth are gone). That'll change now, with quarians and geth partially interlinked. Of course, quarians are individuals, so I'd expect some troublemakers.

War could blossom oncemore. Depends how idealistic you think about the nature of mank— quariankind.

edited 28th Mar '15 9:23:30 AM by Lavaeolus

Well I have Wrex dead in my current playthrough and I was going to destroy Maelon's research too. I hear this way Mordin doesn't eve care about saving the krogan. Or, rather, he's given up on saving them.

But we shall see. It's not a bad idea. Any suggestions on who I should off to see potential changes in the story?

Also I gotta remember that, by the time I get to 3, I have to mAke sure to find Kelly on the Citadel at the first opportunity. None of you jerks warned me she dies if you don't do that! Bleh. Then again, nobody warned me. They told me long after Cerberus attacked.

edited 28th Mar '15 9:30:07 AM by Nikkolas

Thanks to the magic of PS 3 save editing, I have have Kelly alive in Mass Effect 3 have her give me the fish I never actually bought in Mass Effect 2 without needing to go to New Game Plau.

You can tell Kal to stay put and not risk getting killed. Also, the arc projector eats through Geth and should work better than the Cain.

As for Quarians and Geths, well, give them time. Raan and the newly individualized Geth Prime make a good first contact, and so far they remain civil, and not quite bothering each other (societal integration is a Synthesis-only thing). Also, Koris is the biggest proponent of peace and basically the head of the civilian quarians, Xen is a mad scientists whose ethical standards are not commonplace, and Gerrel was talked down, and I guess his actions almost dooming his society could make him be taken down a notch. All in all, the quarians seem to be the least likely of the organics to strike the geth, once they notice that, once they stopped shooting, the geth stopped shooting and extended a hand. Quarians are also by nature less individualistic than other races, so yeah, they could work just fine.

Well the way I heard it, you don't even have to fight through the geth for the final part of the mission so long as you have the Cain. You can stay right at the opening area and then when he tells you the Colossus' shields are down you can blast it.

Not having to fight through the geth to the Colossus would be much appreciated.

Also I'm looking at ME 3 vids on YT and I just remembered something I thought back when I played the game but never got around to asking. Is the Reaper sound in ME 3 inspired by the doom horn of the Tripods in Spielberg's War of the Worlds? It always made me think of that.

You can use the Cain for that, yes.

I personally prefer reserving the Cain for the Derelict and Human Reapers, and the Thresher Maw for Sole Survivor Shep, but that's just me.

edited 28th Mar '15 10:36:28 AM by TheAirman

Anyway, I'll have to try that "Renegade Kaidan" thing for ME 1. I will replay it one of these days. I did miss out on a fair bit because I failed to talk to my crew as often as I could have. I thought they'd only have new things to say after big story events. But nope, they have new conversations after you are done clearing any world.

Although I'm unsurprised Kaidan and Ash don't retain their potential personality changes for ME 3. After all, according to people here, taking the Renegade route with Jack should have made her go even crazier. And yet she is always the same sane, happy and reformed heroine, regardless of what you did on Pragia.

Anyway...where was I....

Grunt: Renegade

That makes 4 Renegades with him, Zaeed, Jack and Morinth.

Actually you know, I'm not sure what Miranda would be. Would she be Renegon?

edited 28th Mar '15 11:51:41 AM by Nikkolas

I consider her Renegade.

She changes back and fourth throughout 2. She starts out quite Renegade but ends up Paragon if Shep is that.

edited 28th Mar '15 11:57:50 AM by Memers

And yet even if you play pretty much 100% Renegade, even if you support Cerberus to the letter, she'll still yell at you about the Collector Base just like everyone else.

Trying a little too hard here, Bio Ware. Keeping the Collector Base was the right choice and even if you had every NPC chew me out for keeping it, I won't change my mind. But making Miranda drop her loyalty out of nowhere like that is just bad writing.