General Autism Discussion

@Midna: I agree, those two very almost opposite views of autism are a problem. It should be seen as some variety of these, somewhere inbetween; well, if nothing else, different forms should be portrayed more.

@Silas: I actually wonder to what extent that's true. Perhaps a study of married autistics or autistics who have dated is in order?

I can give my personal experiences but that's only my personal experiences.

Anecdotes are illustrative, and in the absence of in-depth scientific studies, anecdotes are the best we can use. I find them useful, and the more the better.

Share your anecdotes. I'd like to read them.

Meanwhile, the Huffington Post has also covered the documentary Autism in Love.

I think that if you pretend to be something you're not, you only attract people who like what you're pretending to be, rather than what you are (unless they can see through the façade and they like what they see). I just have a huge problem with the idea of putting on an appearance. Lenny is young, so in his case, I can understand his early desperation. My younger brother is in his mid-20s, and is really big on playing up this "alpha male" persona that has failed to get him a meaningful relationship.

edited 20th Apr '15 12:05:09 PM by BonsaiForest

Well I've had two previous relationship[s and am on my third so I'll go though each. I'll limit it to just the actual relationships and not the random crushes I had on people at times.

Relationship 1: Fellow ASD person (though neither of us was diagnosed at the time), 5 years of the blind leading the blind really. Being at boarding school probably didn't help, we pretty much spent 4 years kinda hooking up but never actually going out, every other years we'd spend time where we'd kinda move towards something but never actually get into a relationship because neither of us had any idea what we were doing. we eve had a kinda breakup where things fell apart and we didn't speak, this was caused by my social ineptitude and probably a bit of hers to.

After I left boarding school we actually got together, but she was still there and it was long distance, in the end it fell apart because she couldn't communicate what was going on in her head (a mess of pressures she was putting on herself and other stuff) and was to afraid to actually talk to me about stuff.

Relationship 2: 2nd year of uni (well 2nd 1st year technically), non-ASD, seemed like the cool girl sorta-rebel kinda type, boy was I wrong. relationship went belly up after a few months for a variety of reasons, in the end we didn't work, I'm very non-traditional and she's very traditional in her ideas of how a relationship should work (including that a boyfriend shouldn't have other female friends, which I have a bunch of), also while she did like me looking back I think we only actually got together because she wanted to have a boyfriend, I'd been nice helping her with stuff because I'm like that and she thought I'd be a good boyfriend. I was a good boyfriend but I'd accidentally fallen into the trap I'd been trying to avoid for years, never date someone who needs saving, date someone who's a fully functional adult, friends can be projects, girlfriends can't. She had issues and I could help her more with them as a friend than as a boyfriend.

Also I would suspect that my ineptitude at relationships (man did I screw some things up) and the fact that when in doubt I fell back on logic didn't help things, she really didn't like me falling back on logic.

Current: Non-ASD or anything else, her brother may be on the spectrum though. All good as is, she likes my oddness and as I'm only her 2nd boyfriend she doesn't have a fixed traditional idea of what a relationship should be. we're honest and we're open, it helps that we're flatmates so it's easy but we both have our own space, we're both curious, adventurous and fun. Also we're both functional beyond our relationship, which is key I think, we were both happy and enjoying our lives while single, our happiness isn't dependent upon the other, it's increased by the other.

Some key factors between my 2nd relationship and my current one, knowing how to introduce the girlfriend to my other friends, especially the female ones, how to properly represent the relationship I have with them so it's not misunderstood.

I don't speak to either of my exs, my first girlfriend will still do a nut if I were to visit her brother while she's at home (though that is more connected to how our friendship ended about a year after our relationship did) and my 2nd simply doesn't talk to me, though we've seen each other in lectures at uni occasionally we haven't spoken.

edited 20th Apr '15 1:04:45 PM by Silasw

FUCK TRADITION

I believe I mentioned before that on a website for autistics, one man said that while he prefers having female friends, he's come to stop trusting women because as soon as they get married, they stop talking to him (and other male friends). This seems to happen the other way around as well - heck, an autistic woman who prefers male friends said that a good friend of hers instantly stopped talking to her upon getting married.

Fuck that shit. I think being autistic makes it easier to look at societal rules from an "outside looking in" perspective, like an anthropologist. From there, we can ascertain "People do this for this reason; huh, that's weird" and realize which rules we think our reasonable and which ones we think are stupid. And speaking only for myself, I really hate certain rules.

My Aspie friend said she thinks that many of our rules are based on insecurity, and that "the insecure run everything" - that is, that rules based around not saying what you really mean, workplace bullcrap (someone said she was quickly fired from a job she kicked ass at precisely because she kicked ass at it, scaring her immediate boss who thought she might replace him), and stuff like not being allowed to have opposite sex relationships when you're in a big one - are dumb rules that, although they exist for a reason (to allay people's insecurities), they're harmful to society overall and would be better off gone.

And I agree. I'm not one of those "Aspergers is superior you peons!" people (anymore), but I will say that I think that while there are things we can learn from NTs, there are things that NTs can learn from us.

O I agree that it's a stupid arse tradition, but it's one plenty of people challenge, and honestly, if she and her current boyfriend are happy that way then good for them. I have no hurt over that relationship (unlike my first) and wish her the best (doing so also did wonders for my ego, even post breakup I still helped her with shit and everyone thought I was awesome for it, to be she was just someone in need of help so I helped, regardless of it the situation involved problems with the guy she'd then gone and got with).

One of my "favourite" dating memories has to be the woman who walked up to my girlfriend and I and started criticizing us because my girlfriend was paying for the movie (it was her turn; I'd payed last time). "My husband never makes me pay for anything" she said, in the most offended of voices. Never before had I come so close to punching a middle-aged woman in public.

Oh yeah, gender roles. They work for you, but not everyone agrees with them. I hate when people think that their way of life absolutely must be everyone else's. (see also: my brother)

Hey I once had a girl, who's boyfriend had got his car stuck, sit in the car and moan at us while we tried to get it unstuck, eventually I told her to get out and help and she went "no that's for men to do", at which point I told them to go fuck themselves and walked off.

@Relationships: What are those, are they a species of fish?

Seriously though, for some odd reason almost every time I've seriously liked someone since I was a teenager they've turned out to either already be in a relationship or I've run into Incompatible Orientation.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

It takes time and a good degree of luck to be honest, don't stress about it and just keep your eyes open.

Nyeh, that's what they all say. I'm pretty sure that's an empty platitude the pretty and charismatic people make to keep the rest of us at peace for a moment much like "There's someone for everyone" and "you just haven't found the right one yet".

The Blog The Art

What? An autistic person can't be charismatic?

Keep Rolling On

No it's not, not unless you're specifically only looking for a stereotypical kind of person who is interested in a stereotypy you don't fit.

If you're not a pretty boy with tons of friends than that's fine, work out what you are and find someone who likes you for that, don't go chasing people who are interested in the stereotype you're not, because that path does only lead to failure.

Seriously, I didn't get a gilrfreind till I was 17 and my first proper relationship was when I was 20, I'd been lamenting my inability to find someone since I was 10 and the other boys were having girlfriends while I wasn't. It takes time, luck and you being able to be happy in your own skin.

Fit stereotypes? Whaddaya think I am some kind of shallow lackwit? I have learned a thing or thousand about humans, I don't see people that way.

Also chasing? No, that'd be rude.

Only people who don't think their own skin sucks say that, more empty platitudes from the successful.

edited 21st Apr '15 4:04:44 AM by MousaThe14

The Blog The Art

Yes, we say it because we know what's like like to hate your own skin and after a lot of work and effort we've managed to become comfortable in our own skin and are much happier for it.

You don't need to act like success in that area is a bad thing. It took me a lot of time and work to like being me, you're acting like I (and other who are comfortable in their own skin) have just had that handed to them on a silver platter.

Well how else? Everyone makes it sound like it's so damned easy, especially with the little catchphrases they throw out ad nauseum that's always the same.

The Blog The Art

It's not easy for anyone.

Keep Rolling On

Well then maybe people should stop making it look and sound like it because from over here it sounds like normal people get everything handed to them; confidence, self-esteem, social skills, people that are attracted to them, etc.

The Blog The Art

Where has anyone in this thread made it sound easy? It's bloody hard and often relies upon a degree of luck, it's hard to keep going out into the world in search of people who like you for you and will thus help you learn to like you for you, it's incredibly hard but that doesn't mean it's not also bloody important.

I learnt to like me for me because I managed to get people in my life who like me for me, part of that was luck but part of it was also knowing how to walk away from people who weren't good for me, knowing how to identify people who would treat me right. For me it worked largely because I found someone who despite being a good person was in a bad situation, I helped them as I do naturally and they got to see me at my most me, they liked that person a lot and made sure I knew that, eventually I grew to like that person to.

Okay now you're just being silly, I defiantly do not qualify as normal. Dear god I'm the kid who had no real friends his own age growing up till he went to a boarding school, has two different disorders, has special educational needs, went to one of the weirdest school in the world and was still regarded as the weird kid, is commonly introduced as "Silas, he's the crazy one (but in a good way)", is an academic failure in so many ways and has all sorts of issues (hero complex, messiah complex, serious lack of self esteem, abandonment issues, inferiority complex). Nobody ever call me normal.

edited 21st Apr '15 5:03:18 AM by Silasw

Well clearly something isn't going right because I already have and do that. I know fantastic people. Great people. People who are better than me in almost every way quite frankly.

Except the luck thing. I've never had a shred of luck in my life, which means that everything depends on a nebulous concept about fate that has been working against me all my life. Thanks for the comfort.

The Blog The Art

In a way, you make your own luck. If there's something wrong, try to change it and don't give up, however long it takes. The only person that can change things is you.

Keep Rolling On

Yeah part of managing luck is keeping going, it's similar to the saying that you can't win the lottery if you don't play. It takes luck, but you have to keep going out there so luck has a chance to find you.

@Mousa

I'm sure you don't mean to, but you're acting as though other people in this thread don't have problems simply because they have been in relationships, etc. Sure, I have a girlfriend. I'm also recovering from a suicidal mental breakdown which, while a year ago now, has still left marks on me and everyone around me. I'm also neither pretty, nor charismatic.

As far as empty platitudes and catchphrases go, the reason people use them, is because there is no secret trick they can reveal to you. I can't tell you how I've dealt with my personal issues because like it or not, those issues are specific to me. The most we can do is tell you to a) not give up, and b) find solutions that work for you.

As for luck, luck is a pretty useless concept. Sure, sometimes things do happen because of circumstances beyond your control, but since those circumstances are beyond your control, what's the point in fixating on them? Take a look at the things you can fix.

No association found between MMR vaccine and autism, even among children at higher risk: "In a study that included approximately 95,000 children with older siblings, receipt of the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine was not associated with an increased risk of autism spectrum disorders (ASD), regardless of whether older siblings had ASD, findings that indicate no harmful association between receipt of MMR vaccine and ASD even among children already at higher risk for ASD, according to a new study."

Not that it'll stop the anti-vaxxers though.

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.