This thread is about Russia and any events, political or otherwise, that are or might be worth discussing.
Any news, links or posts pertaining to the situation involving Russia, Crimea and Ukraine must be put in the 'Crisis in Ukraine' thread.
Group of deputies wants Gorbachev investigated over Soviet break-up.
Above in the Guardian version.
Putin's war against Russia's last independent TV channel.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 27th 2022 at 11:26:10 AM
Silasw - That was the point of my bringing up Britain and Japan, to give examples of countries that managed to become prosperous and democratic despite never letting go of their Imperialism. Do they have Imperialism-related social issues? Of course, but they are still much richer and freer than Russia is, so all this "Memorial" talk that lack of caring about some past massacres breeds lack of accountability in the government doesn't really hold water.
I also agree completely that Putin is guilty of not caring about bad shit happening on his turf, but that's more or less a problem of all modern Russian politicians, not that it absolves any of them of responsibility for it.
Julep - We don't ignore the bad parts of our history. We know and remember them, we just aren't as keen on constantly talking about it as the Americans and the Western Europeans are, because, honestly, what's the point, from our perspective? Russian history has repeated itself for the last 500 years, why bother pretending like talking about it is going to change anything, right? It's just going to make you depressed for no benefit. Also, and that was my argument, it's very difficult to own up to your mistakes when it means saying that your sacrifice was completely meaningless. Admitting that you've enriched yourself at the cost of some other poor sod's livelihood? Sure, especially since I already have all his money and am not planning on giving it back, I can admit that I should feel guilty over being so rich and powerful. But admitting that you've impoverished, starved and abused yourself and suffered in a dysfunctional system for seven decades only to become a laughingstock of your enemy after you've just keeled over and died? Much harder. Just as necessary, perhaps, but nowhere near as easy.
Edit - Iac, same argument as with Silasw's post. The UK and Japan are rich and functional democracies, something that Russia isn't. Plus you yourself just explained how Japan not being a completely flawless democracy is the result of American occupation and not any Imperialist nostalgia.
edited 6th Aug '17 11:07:49 AM by KnitTie
Japanese politics occur largely intraparty and not interparty. If Navalny was a member of United Russia and commanding a faction large enough of that party that Putin had to always appease him then we could talk about Japanese conditions.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Before Brexit, the UK was the world's fifth largest economy.
The Brexit vote was achieved by subverting the normal democratic process and has resulted, within a single year, in the UK dropping from the fifth largest economy in the world to seventh and it still hasn't stabilised. We haven't exited the EU yet. This is just a response to the vote and the trigger.
The UK is currently not a good example of either a functional democracy or a healthy economy.
edited 6th Aug '17 11:34:37 AM by Wyldchyld
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
Oh, bother.
Yeah, if you are going to point to other countries who downplay past atrocities who thrive as democracies despite it, there are probably better examples than the U.K. or Japan.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
Like, seriously, we, a service economy, imperilled every single trade agreement we have because we assumed our non-existent empire would take up the slack. There really is no better object lesson in the perils of unexamined colonial delusions than Brexit.
What's precedent ever done for us?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Probably every country has some atrocities in their history that the official position downplays to some extent (besides maybe Germany, and in Germany it reached its widest extent only well after one generation grew up in the post-WW 2 Germany). Most of the populace seldom dwells on them for any significant part of their time, aside some history class in college or maybe there's some anniversary or a politician made a speech and they read about it in a newspaper. Nobody ever talking about them at all would be already a major sign that one lives in a full heads-on totalitarianism, so it's probably best to stop and reconsider well before that point.
The healthiest possible ground that a country can realistically aim for seems to be that public sphere accepts that it's normal that there's a loud minority of idealists who actually care enough about the past atrocities to make it their hobby to keep noise about memorials and such. A normal part of the society, instead of regarding them as traitors / troublemakers to be marginalized.
edited 8th Aug '17 1:39:20 PM by maus42
Speaking at a youth forum on Tuesday, Valery Fedorov, the head of the state-owned V Ts IOM polling agency, warned that Russian society’s demand for stability — the hallmark of Vladimir Putin’s 17 years in power — has dissipated and been replaced by a demand for changes.
According to Fedorov, Russians are responding to the end of the country’s years-long financial crisis and the simultaneous absence of a large-scale economic recovery. This atmosphere has given rise to “insecurity about the future,” Fedorov said, calling it a dangerous trend. “Revolutionary attitudes appear when a crisis has ended and things start getting better, not when the crisis is underway,” the pollster explained.
“In this situation, people’s patience runs out and they start making demands, and it’s in this situation that demands for changes emerge,” Fedorov said, adding that Russians' demand for stability is “moving to the periphery.” Referring explicitly to next year’s presidential election, he warned that “today’s political battle” in Russia will decide whose vision for reforms prevails.
In late June, commenting on nationwide anti-corruption protests, Valery Fedorov said in a television interview that 15 percent of Russians make up the unpatriotic “shit” who regularly criticize Vladimir Putin. “These are the people who have no love for our Russia. These are the people who have no desire to make it better. These are the people who are always ready to criticize and protest, whether they have a reason or not,” Fedorov said, arguing that young people made up just a fifth of recent anti-corruption protests. He blamed the media for exaggerating the presence of youths in this movement.
Giant Monument to Kalashnikov, Creator of AK-47, Is Unveiled in Moscow
The ceremony took place to the sounds of Russian military folk music, the Soviet anthem, Orthodox prayers and words about how his creation had ensured Russia’s safety and peace in the world.
The bronze statue depicts General Kalashnikov, who died in 2013 at age 94, looking into the distance and cradling one of his automatics in his arms “like a violin,” according to Russian state television. The statue is about 16 feet tall, and on a pedestal about 13 feet tall.
The ceremony contained no mention of the untold millions of people who have been killed or maimed by the weapon since its creation in 1947.
There wasn't one already? Colour me surprised.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Not super into the wording on that article to be honest.
Gotta wonder if they'd make a dig about all the Native Americans that were murdered if there was a statue commemorating Oliver Winchester or something.
Oh really when?
Same. A bit of a low blow.
Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
Such celebrations fall in line with Putin's interpretation of Russian history, in any case. Besides, there are bigger cultural priorities at the moment in Russia that he's overseeing, such as making sure the celebrations of the Great Revolution go as smoothfully as possible, while emphasizing Russia's historical greatness.
edited 19th Sep '17 11:16:09 AM by Quag15
I have to agree that I'm not a fan of the wording, anyway people getting maimed or killed by a weapon isn't something worth mentioning considering that's the entire point of weapons.
edited 19th Sep '17 1:10:04 PM by Fourthspartan56
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Yeah, but personally I don't think that warrants erecting a statue. Neither do I agree with the sentiment that - according to the people erecting the statue - the Kalashnikov ensured peace in the world.
edited 19th Sep '17 1:16:39 PM by DrunkenNordmann
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Kalashnikov might agree with the article condemning his gun. He was tormented by the use his weapons had been put to.
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Eh, even so it's really unnecessary. Terrorists and criminals use ARs just as much as AKs but you don't see them running articles like that about Eugene Stoner. Or Vorgrimler for inventing the G3, another weapon widely used across the Middle East.
Oh really when?
So... he made a cheap and effective weapon but he didn't expect it to proliferate and be used for its intended purpose (to kill people)? I have sympathy for the guy but that sounds silly.
edited 19th Sep '17 1:29:26 PM by Fourthspartan56
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
More like he created the rifle for Russia to use. Not everybody else.
Oh really when?
Did he not think that Russia would sell it? Or that there would be knockoffs? I doubt you know the answer but it just seemed like he intentionally or otherwise ignored the inevitable consequences.
Maybe he was woefully naive?
edited 19th Sep '17 1:39:30 PM by DrunkenNordmann
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Honestly if I had to guess I think he was just lying to himself a lot.
Oh really when?
That sounds more plausible, the article did mention that he denied any responsibility until right before his death. Sounds like he was in major denial and did some soul-searching as he approached the metaphorical and literal grave.
edited 19th Sep '17 1:47:26 PM by Fourthspartan56
"Sandwiches are probably easier to fix than the actual problems" -Hylarn
He had not expected the USSR"s Communist government, which in theory was opposed to capitalism and profit, to sell the damn gun.
Japan isn't an especially functional democracy - it's a one-party state, thanks to the American occupation giving the Liberal Democratic Party an insurmountable lead early on in the new system (which, conveniently, also allowed a bunch of the more odious members of the Imperial Japanese government to make a comeback by presenting themselves as allies to the Americans against communism). The democratic systems are mostly in place and mostly functional, but the LDP is so far ahead of everyone else in experience and resources that they're largely meaningless, because there isn't a credible opposition (and when there is, the LDP just absorbs it into itself). Imagine if whenever a guy like Navalny showed up, Putin would immediately bribe him into United Russia and get him toeing the party line - that's Japan.
As for the UK, you may have noticed that we just committed national suicide because of misguided nostalgia for our imperial past. Not exactly an example to emulate.
What's precedent ever done for us?