The General Russia Thread

Oh Jesus fucking Christ, another "Whose media is more right" argument. Haven't we had enough of those already?

Anyway, just to address the post that started this, the one about the fidget spinner conspiracy, I'd like to remind everyone here that the Russian media isn't one big monolithic institution that receives orders directly from Putin, but rather a bunch of completely uninterconnected people who get paid by the Russian government to promote our party line and then are left to their own devices without anything resembling a central control apparatus. This leads to the different journalists and writers churning out whatever they think Putin would like them to say without any oversight beyond the general making sure that it sticks to the "West bad, Russia good" formula, the end result of which is that our media contradicts itself on a daily basis and occasionally sounds really, really batshit like in this case simply because anything that is pro-Russia goes. So don't take this as evidence of the Russian government really thinking that fidget spinners are an evil plot and instead view it as a consequence of our propaganda department having really, really shitty quality control.

edited 19th Jul '17 1:46:29 AM by KnitTie

Eh, it'd be right up there with the recent ban on Winnie the Pooh in China.

I honestly wouldn't make the comparison. The government of China at least has an idea what its censors are doing, while in Russia the censors basically go "Notice me Putin-senpai!" and the government just goes "Whatever."

Also, Russia isn't even remotely as controling of its information as China, no matter what the critics say - we're still very much a country with a free flow of information, the biggest problem is that the opinions you hear in our TV and newspapers are either rabidly pro-Kremlinist or rabidly anti-Kremlinist with nothing in-between, but if you want to be a little proactive and find some other point of view yourself, nothing is going to stop you.

edited 19th Jul '17 9:45:14 PM by KnitTie

I only meant in terms of stupidity. A conspiracy theory based on fidget spinners is about as dumb as a ban on Winnie the Pooh. Both are inclined to make outsiders go "WTF?".

The difference is as you said: in Russia it's due to the government not really giving a shit about details as long as there's a general anti-Western narrative going, in China it's due to the government being petty thin-skinned control freaks.

I'd actually say that about 85% of everything wrong with Russia is actually caused by us not giving a shit, not just the politics. Russian fatalism is a self-perpetuating circle of misery; we don't try to change anything because we know we never succeded in changing anything, but we never succeded only because we haven't tried, we give up at the first sign of trouble and then spend months complaining about how everything sucks.

I blame the tradition of authoritarianism.

On a lighter note, pizza. That may depend on your opinion of American chain pizza, though.

Global pizza brands battle for Russia's far-flung regions

I actually do want that "Russian" pizza.

Well, godspeed to those brave pizza men, what can I say. Chain store pizza is shit, but it's lightyears less shit than the mayonnaise-slathered bready pancakes topped with hot pink-coloured soy sausages that most of our remote oblasts still call pizza.

The level of food culture in rural/industrial Russia is so low that people there think that giving your roast chicken breast implants is a good idea. And anything actually edible is a step up from that.

...

Breast implants in a chicken? Really? SMH

Also, when the local pizza makes the likes of Pizza Hut and Domino's look like gourmet overpriced pizza in comparison, yeah, there's a problem.

Pizza quality decreases exponentially the further away you get from New England, it makes sense.

As someone who has lived in Pennsylvania and California, I have to disagree. Then again, when I was living in PA, we never really ate at any of the more upscale pizza places. The best pizza I ate then was the stuff from the local farmer's market. That was good stuff.

I can't stop laughing over the though of a a regular chicken being turned into a Chester with breast implants.

edited 21st Jul '17 5:00:07 PM by AngelusNox

Real Italian pizza > trashy American pizza.

It's not a filling, though.

Even seemingly high-quality pizza can be much worse than you expect. I went to a Pizza Express pizzeria in St Andrews (Scotland) a few times. Everything was fine (including the rasberry lemonade), but the pizza was horrible due to the overuse of sweet tomato sauce.

In contrast, a cheap take-away restaurant a few streets away served not only much better pizza, but also chicken nuggets.

Your real problem there is that your metric for 'high-quality pizza' is Pizza Express, though.

Try an ultra-minimalist Tuscan pizza from a farm-restaurant in the middle of nowhere where the flavour comes entirely from delicately balanced herbs and well-placed capers, or one from a tiny but quietly legendary cafe in Naples where an entire feast in perfect, delicious harmony with itself is spread across a seemingly crude but remarkably careful meld of cheese and tomato atop a wafer-thin base, and you'll start to awaken to the possibilities. Or, hell, just find a respectable-looking non-chain Italian restaurant with a decent selection of pizza on the menu, and you're likely to have a pretty damned pleasant time.

Agreed, Neapolitan pizza was much better, although I wouldn't call it the best as it is not very filling due to its paper-thin base. So, as far as I remember, it can be very costy if you want to satisfy your hunger with it.

I know we have our differences but what did the Russians do that justifies unleashing Dominos on them?

Imagine this: the Dominos is better than most of the Russian pizza you'll find outside of major cities.

I'm wondering if Russian pizza is worse than the abomination my old elementary school called French Bread Pizza. At least the school pizza had something resembling actual meat and no mayo.

I'm now hungry for pizza.

From the US Politics thread. Anyone able to find a source on this?

edited 30th Jul '17 6:56:47 PM by hellomoto

All I get is "this candidate is trying to bribe people with groceries including vodka" and "polling station gives a bottle of vodka to the voter who shows up first."

edited 31st Jul '17 11:27:41 AM by Pz_VI

Historical revisionism at its finest. Inb 4 Trump topples it by praising the proud history of the confederate states.

Those guys are from "Memorial," which is known for its moonbat ideology - they supported the Chechen separatists to the end, even after all the blatant atrocities they committed, simply because they were against the Kremlin - and its love of deliberately getting in trouble with the officials to make a political point a la Navalny. I sincerely doubt that anyone in Russia cares about his mass grave antics - we have these things on every corner and besides, it's not like we're shocked or dismayed by mass murder of civilians by the state after having a history of repressive autocracy, so my current theory on why this guy's in the slammer is either him deliberately trying to get in there for freedom fighter points or some retard in the government working towards the Kremlin again.

And as an aside, I think that an accountable government absolutely doesn't require the sort of Modern German-style self-flagellatingly repentant attitude towards one's history that "Memorial" is trying to promote. Just look at Japan, or Britain for that matter - neither likes to talk about all the imperialistic massacres they've perpetuated over the course of their histories and yet both are rather functional democracies. Also, I don't believe that our dislike of examining Soviet history in detail has to do with our nationalistic pride, since a lot of our nationalists love lambasting the USSR to either further embellish their beloved Tsarist government or drive home their demented point that killing unRussian untermenschen and their race traitor allies is a good thing. The reason why we don't like to remember the USSR is because it's one big fat pile of our sacrifices amounting to nothing in the end for us, and it's just as depressing to think about as you might guess.

edited 6th Aug '17 6:56:03 AM by KnitTie

Seriously, that's just your argument every time there is some dubious imprisonment or shady murder: "some guy in the Kremlin" or "some guy trying to pleasing Putin". It's never a larger problem, maybe related to the president being actually pleased by such shows of power, it's always "individual actions". And you always blame the victims anyway.

I don't have a huge emotional investment in Russian politics, but you are pretty much the Russian politics equivalent of a Male's Rights Activists. A woman gets beaten to death? Sure, the husband was an asshole, but that is just him, there is no widespread problem with conjugal violence. Feminists try to raise a point about the patriarchal system? Geez, look how nasty and insulting they are, saying that there is a global problem, it's no surprise they fall victims of swatting or online harassment considering how they speak. It also works with race issues. A black guy gets killed by a police officer despite doing absolutely nothing violent? That police officer had issues, there is no reason to say that it is a systemic issue. Movements such as Black Lives Matter appear? Damn, listen to how extremist they are, everything they say is absolutely wrong, ergo I will oppose them on every point.

As for Japan, there was a huge outcry when the (very conservative) PM decided to visit a memorial where some war criminals are buried/honored. So no, they are not "OK" with having mass murderers part of they history, and they definitely don't want to swap them under the rug. Macron made the French conservatives scream to death when he said that colonization was a crime against humanity - and without going into the misery olympics, as a concept, colonization might actually be less criminal than the mass execution of political opponents, because it can at least be relatively peaceful and blood-free.

Besides, accusing someone annoying to be a paedo seems to be Russian methods 101. But it's OK, because all those people obviously deserve it.

Also, "depressing history", are you kidding me? Because a country has a sad history means it can decide to ignore some monstrous parts of it? That's an impressive display of moral weakness here. You must own your mistakes if you plan to be a great culture, not try to ignore them.

edited 6th Aug '17 7:34:35 AM by Julep

Sorry man but once you leave the military and Putin's immediate inner circle the Russian government is pretty decentralized.

Local idiots arranging "accidents" or kidnappings or jailings of opposition in an attempt to please Putin is genuinely how the Russian political landscape looks.

And there really isn't a good, genuine opposition movement in the government.

Now that's not an excuse for the authoritarian bullshit going on over there but Putin isn't behind everything and very few people who make a public spectacle of opposing him are good people.

And a very deep political and cultural apathy is a well documented Russian phenomenon. It dates back centuries.

I wonder if it's the lack of sunshine.

edited 6th Aug '17 8:04:36 AM by LeGarcon

There is however still a valid point to be made that Putin clearly doesn't care about local officials murdering people, it's his government and decentralised or not he could stop such things, he just doesn't give a dam.

Still if thease guys are the kind of assholes Knit has said this may just been a stopped clock situation.

Oh and Japan and the UK are not good examples of who to move on form a bad past in a healthy way, both countries has huge nostalgia boners for their imperial days and suffer modern issues because of it (Nostalga for imperial days played a factor in Brexit, though only because the UK deep media state had spend decades whipping it up).

Also it can't be the lack of sunshine, look at other arctic or near-arctic countries, Canada, Iceland, Scotland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, even Alaska at times. The cold north breeds social democracy.