Differences between male and female autism

It would also be interesting to know which gender the people are who like to spend more time with their own gender. The ones who are more fun to be around get bragging rights

@Marquis: Admittedly it is Wikipedia, but the same article that you linked to for support of the "extreme male brain" theory points out a number of problems with it.

That would explain a lot for me, outside of the internet I've only got 2 real guy friends, it's always been simpler for me to get on with girls.

Could it be related to gender stereotypes? How often to autistic/aspy people actually conform to gender norms?

I only recently noticed, myself, that I prefer talking to women. It's not attraction, though (I thought it was in my teenage years) — instead, it's just because I find women more fun to talk to than men.

Not saying men aren't interesting people, but a guy has to be really intellectual for me to enjoy his company.

On a related note, I create more female characters than male.

I'm also male.

edited 22nd Apr '14 10:14:14 PM by AwSamWeston

Fascinating. All these things (more casual relationships with opposite sex, writing opposite sex characters, etc.) are all true for me as well. I wonder if HFA are less gender typed than neurotypical people?

Can we do a quick straw poll? I'm male.

I've seen at least one poll that asked people which sex they preferred the company of. 40% said oppposite sex. 35% said same sex. The rest said it didn't matter. This was on wrongplanet.net, which is all about ASD people.

Anyway, for the poll here, I'll add my voice to it.

I'm male and prefer the company of females.

Look — I don't test out as having anything on the spectrum: but, I've always got on with guys better. I might have liked ballet and gym as a kid — but, I actually preferred playing LEGO, Transformers (mainly Decepticons, if you must know: we thought planes way more cool than cars) and He-Man with my brother and his mates (there were more boys in the neighbourhood than girls) rather than the My Little Pony I played with lasses when at school and sleep-overs. (Barbie made a useful kidnap victim in games — otherwise, the most pointless gift ever given to me: I'm not into fashion and never have been good with a needle — for all I still love playing costume dress-up if given the chance to.)

I make an exception for Sindy: you could actually pose her as if she were doing ballet exercises or beam-work — or even "busted an Achilles". Which I liked doing: play what you know. I actually cried when that doll got chewed.

Which is why sweeping statements about that "male brain" thing? Baloney: there is a range, normally, when it comes to which genders people like to interact with — regardless of any other mental wiring going on. A lot of it is socialisation: girls with brothers (plural) and no sisters will naturally get on better in the company of boys. Boys who have neither sisters, nor girls in their school environment? Will be rather more awkward around girls than boys. Kids who don't get much socialisation of any kind? Will, unsurprisingly... be awkward in general. They don't even need to start out with Aspie wiring to have that issue: just be deprived socially.

Woot. Guys don't have the range of options girls have when it comes to ticking the "none of the above" box — but, that's a social thing. For girls, being able to be a tomboy and not get shouted down for it? Doesn't mean they're more mentally a bloke. Or more likely to be Aspie. It's just easier for them to find a niche where they can express whatever it is they are. Which... has problems attached. Where they might actually not be expressing "tomboy" but "really having trouble, here" — it might get missed.

The problem is when people look at neurology... and apply social labels to behaviour. What is "girly"? What is "boyish"? Why is one more acceptable than another, depending on who is exhibiting it? And, why is it that there is this need to box socialisation issues into any particular gender box, anyway?

edited 23rd Apr '14 7:12:21 AM by Euodiachloris

I think the "extreme male brain" thing is crap. Male autistics are hardly "manly", and there's much anti-gender-stereotyping going on among both sexes. Combine that with a greater tendency to prefer the opposite sex's company, and "extreme male brain" my ass.

I understand your situation is an interesting one, but I grew up with guys. I had brothers, and there were plenty of boys in my school. I even played with boys more often than girls while in elementary. But I wanted the girls to like the same things I did. I rejoiced when I heard someone on TV say that video games were growing in popularity with girls (this was said as if it were a bad thing). I liked girl heroes in cartoons, TV shows, books, but I didn't like "girly" interests such as dolls and such. I wasn't raised this way; I just was this way.

I'll note that the "extreme male" theory, at least from what I read, is mostly about hormones, not necessarily the effects it has on gender stuff.

That may be the case, but even when it comes to the brain, they've discovered that:

• Typical males form lots of connections within the same hemisphere, and fewer between the hemispheres.
• Typical females form lots of connections between the hemispheres, and fewer within the same hemisphere.
• Autisics form connections all over the place.

That sounds like a cross between male and female brains right there.

...Subtext. <_< The inference has always been very strong that "hormones = behaviour = neurology" from that side. <_<

Neurochemicals are always part of the equation (and hormones the ultimate when it comes to that: some of them are the bluntest tools in the chemical kit)... but.

Doing a few modules of neuroscience as part of psychology taught me a very important lesson: it's just a fallacious to decide that the body doesn't impact the brain as to decide the brain doesn't impact the body and that the balances in there only have meaning in there. Physically, those hormones could be part of a swine of a feedback loop — or a number of feedback loops: including the impact of social behaviour on the biology outside the brain. There are always more systems than are being looked at involved when it comes to neurology. <_<

Narrowing it down to exhibited behaviour that gets given social labels? Hai, man. <rolls eyes>

Psychology: not dealing with a closed system.

edited 23rd Apr '14 8:27:02 AM by Euodiachloris

Sure, but all of those factors you mention, important as they are, arent particularly correlated with HFA. There is something left to explain, even after you account for all the environmental forces.

What are you talking about? I don't understand, along with which message you're replying to.

I'm replying to Euo. She's discussing things like siblings, school environment, socialization, and so forth. I'm saying sure, but those factors still dont explain the effects we see correlated with HFA.

Yup.

But, for at same token... define "male brain". <_< Because, you can talk generalisations about differences in brain structure between the genders until the cows come home (for, there are a few). But, the exceptions to the trends stack up, as well. -_- The brain is that complicated an organ — well, "collection of organs" would be a better description. <_<

Calling possibly spectrum-related phenomena by gender terms is up there with suggesting that "female" brains are the human default. And, that "male" brains are somehow... other. <_< Which I don't buy. What you're looking at? May just be "how spectrum-related brains look"... "gendered" similarities go hang.

edited 23rd Apr '14 11:16:26 AM by Euodiachloris

I linked to the article that I found on the topic back at this post. If you recall, the original finding is that females with HRA resemble males in terms of personality traits and behavioral patterns more associated with males in neuro-typical populations.

Question for those more experienced than me:

I have noticed at work, the male patients always show signs before they have an episode. They may not be a lot or may not havea good warning ttime, but the signs are always there.

Now for the women, there are never any signs. They can be perfectly fine and even laughing and smiling before it hits them or they hurt someone.

Again, I know that I am acquainted with a very small percentage of the Autism community but I was wondering if this translates in other ways on other ends of the spectrum.

You mean the High Functioning end? I dont think people at that end of the spectrum typically have what you could term "episodes".

On any end of the spectrum. I have seen children have the same fits of course not as bad as the people I take care of, but it happens.

I didn't know if that was something they grew out of or something that could possibly manifest in different ways.

Can you explain a bit more? What do you mean by "episode"?

Fits, self injurious behavior, attacking other people, etc.

Now the children I have encounter with Autism who aren't so severe they need to be institutionalized also throw tantrums, just not violent.

Examples:

My friend's four year old has issues with the color orange. He will act up or run away from teachers should they be wearing orange.

Another friend has a nine year old who often gets into rights because he either takes things to literally or overanalyzes something.

Both of these boys show signs of aggiatation previous to their tantrums.

My friend with the girl who is 12 on the other hand, tells me her daughter doesn't have any warning signs and I have seen it as well. She can be just fine and then start crying or lose her temper and throw a fit, then goes right back to being fine.

Again, different levels of severity, but same patterns. I was curious if that continues through life in a parallel way.

Like I'm betting most people with Autism don't throw tantrums at their food touching each other on their plate, but that doesn't mean it can't aggitate them and they are self aware of signs that they could be getting worked up.

I can't really speak to your main question — I haven't noticed things like in myself, and it sounds like that kind of stuff only happens in early childhood. I wasn't very self-aware back then.

Side-note: I think I'm getting this thread mixed up with the "General Autism / Asperger's" thread. I just made a reply that would've fit better over there.

edited 30th Apr '14 1:31:41 PM by AwSamWeston

It could also just be a problem with anecdotal evidence. Some children you know have warning signs while others don't and that just happens to be in line with their gender. Though I guess that's part of the reason why you ask here.

For it to be so consistent across my patients makes it worth noting. I am also open to the idea that most of my patients are so severely autistic and/or compounded with other difficulties they are often not able to function higher than a 12 year old.

So it could be something that higher functioning individuals may be able to grow out of or adapt with.

Or it could be nothing. Never hurts to ask though.