CW's Flash

I don't think we were supposed to feel sympathetic, just that her backstory was a From Nobody to Nightmare.

edited 14th Dec '17 9:25:28 PM by Windona

I think you mean "terrible".

Given that we know for a fact that it can do both (maybe. It's not confirmed that Time Wraiths and Black Flash have anything to do with the Speed Force), that would be what we call a Plot Hole.

Not everything has an in-universe explanation. Especially given this show's penchant for inventing new rules and concepts on the fly.

edited 15th Dec '17 5:46:35 PM by KnownUnknown

Even when the answer is "Speed Force", the answer is always "Speed Force".

Don't we have an obligatory gif for this?

It hasn't actually been confirmed that the Speed Force can strip speedsters of their powers. We only know of two cases related to that:

1) When Thawne lost his powers after going back in time and killing Nora Allen. Note that, while Thawne says he lost his ability to use the Speed Force, he never said the Speed Force was the cause of it. I always interpreted it as, if Barry never becomes the Flash, then Thawne never becomes obsessed with him, and so never becomes the Reverse Flash. Hence, no speed.

2) When Barry is trapped in the Speed Force and has to go through the Speed Force's therapy session in order to get his speed back. But in that scenario, the Speed Force isn't what took Barry's speed away; Zoom did that via superscience. That episode showed that the Speed Force can choose who it gives speed powers to, but not necessarily that it can take those powers away once given.

It's never been confirmed that the Speed Force is connected to the Wraiths and Black Flash either.

So we're left with the fact that the Speed Force implied that it could have stopped Barry from making Flashpoint if it wanted to and, if we're taking by the absolute certainty of what we've been explicitly given, we have no idea how it planned to do that, only that - according to it - it could.

edited 15th Dec '17 6:23:41 PM by KnownUnknown

Zoom explicitly refers to the Time Wraiths as being the Speed Force's "enforcers", chasing after him for breaking its rules.

The Time Wraiths aren't capable of stopping a speedster from altering the timeline, however.

They can chase down speedsters who time travel and kill them before they have a chance to change time; when Barry traveled back in time to Season 1, that's what the Time Wraith who followed him to the past was trying to do.

They're pretty bad at their jobs then seeing as Barry still managed too and the only went after him in the first place due to Zoom's shenanigans. Plus we have the crap Thawne has pulled, avoiding dealing with simply because "He knows what he's doing". Jay has done their job better than them.

No one ever said the Time Wraiths weren't bad at their jobs.

I'm aware.

Thinking about it, couldn't both Barry's memory loss and Wally suddenly losing his healing factor be the Speedforce exerting it's will? The whole point was to teach Barry a lesson, getting him to correct his "mistake" would be simple since he's very easy to manipulate when you know which buttons to push.

edited 15th Dec '17 7:23:56 PM by Cross

Also, the Time Wraiths only went after Barry after he started to meddle with the past. Same with Zoom.

edited 15th Dec '17 8:00:28 PM by KnownUnknown

At some point you have to accept that nothing in this show actually makes any sense.

but it could make sense if the writers put in an ounce of effort and also the writers keep telling us that it makes sense while it clearly doesn't. just like they keep telling us barry's a good friend and that harry's a friend at all, which, if you only looked at actions....yeah, no.

I don't think it's that they dont' put in effort, it's that in comparison to whatever plots they want to tell on a season by season, or even an episode by episode basis, they rules they put in place just don't matter to them. So they constantly contradict or simply ignore those rules and holes in favor of just telling the stories they want to tell in that moment. It's a pitfall of network tv in general - the continuity of today is nothing to the dramatic twists of tomorrow.

And in the end, I actually get that. I don't always like it, but I get it.

edited 17th Dec '17 4:49:23 PM by KnownUnknown

Ah, the old characters v plot v worldbuilding. The best writers balance it out well, but even great writers can fumble with the balance.

then all they have to do is /admit/ that it doesn't make sense. I'm perfectly ok with having the character say " that makes no sense" and another saying " yeah we just go with it now? idk man." but instead the writers give use a dozen different rules and act like we're stupid for not understanding the perfect sense it suposedly makes.

They did have the line about how the more people time travel the more it causes the rules of time travel to not make sense.

Alright. In spite of The Flash Reborn, Luck Be A Lady, and Girl's Night Out souring my view on this show, I might have to continue watching The Flash. I love this baddie and this exchange.

• Barry points out that De Voe came up with Samu-roid. Dude doesn't even deny it. Doesn't bat an eye at how ridiculous this concept was.
• "Because I have nothing to fear from you." I mean, Barry could toss De Voe out of his wheelchair and flee the scene before anybody could see him do it. Once again, De Voe has some serious balls.
• Did... did De Voe just call a "council of Wells" a bunch of chumps?
• What do the metas who've come after you have in common Barry? All of them, have kicked your ass the first time you met them, and you've only survived them due to luck.
  • Seriously, Eddie shooting himself to stop Thawne. The Time Wraith showing up to kill Zoom, and Zoom not making another Time Remnant to cheat. Iris capping Savitar.
• De Voe: Zoom, Savitar, Thawne - children? Nothing compared to you Thinker? Let's recap.
  • Thawne: went back in f'cking time. The right f'cking way. He had to be erased from existence to be stopped and that didn't even stop him.
  • Zoom: Nearly made Barry Allen fastest cup-stacker alive.
  • Savitar: Nearly destroyed the timeline with his end of season doohickey.
  • De Voe: Barely warranted a mention from two of Barry's future rogues gallery.
    • I swear, these two are full of hot air!

In spite of that, this had the same level of menace that Evil Wells had in Season 2. I genuinely adore this performance.

edited 25th Dec '17 9:18:08 AM by Soble

to be fair, the council of wells /are/ a bunch of chumps. what a waste of a b plot.

I STILL maintain that clifford isn't the Devoe that everyone's been talking about.

What, are the Wells this season not living up to the hype? We finally get multiple Wells' and they're not even worth a 6 on the Wells-o-meter?

Well, that's disconcerting.

It does really highlight how much they suck at dealing with other people.

Which leads you to wonder how Harry managed to get married to his universe's Tess if he comes off as so abrasive.

(Flashback Wells makes sense, given how cute and cheesy he was)