The Knife Thread

You can skip any fancy springs and go for flip open lock blades. They will be more reliable in field conditions.

Gerber, SOG, Buck, and Spyderco all make some pretty decent flip open lock blades.

edited 2nd Jan '14 7:40:24 PM by TuefelHundenIV

Eh, not so much fighting as my neighborhood is awful and guns are expensive.

I'm just not up for getting jumped and not having something on me.

edited 2nd Jan '14 7:42:23 PM by LeGarcon

A folding knife is a lousy self-defense weapon. You're better off with pepper spray, or a taser. Or a big stick. Or a large glass bottle (half full).

edited 2nd Jan '14 7:48:24 PM by demarquis

Friend of mine got a collapsing baton recently but that barely fits in a pocket.

Still though, a knife sounds a wee bit more useful. Different friend of mine had to cut his way out of seatbelt once and I've got no way to do that.

I only mention the little spring things because I bite my nails almost religiously and I've always had trouble opening other knives. They were cheap knives but still.

edited 2nd Jan '14 8:32:33 PM by LeGarcon

Seconding Buck. Buck has some excellent modular folding knives. The one I have is fairly small, which a blade length of about 2.75 inches and a total length of 6.5 inches. When folding, the knife is 3.5 inches long. It is an unassuming looking, sturdy and simple knife that holds an edge extremely well. In short, it makes a great general-purpose pocket knife.

CRKT makes superb knives as well. They're expensive, but you get what you paid for. I'm particularly fond of the Carson Design M16 series of CRKT knives. I would be leery about carrying one of these in a relatively civil place, but if you're out in the woods or working in an industrial environment that requires heavy-duty tools, a CRKT will work quite well for you. I've never had a problem with a CRKT while working outdoors at the like, and they have locking safeties with good rust and corrosion resistance. Definitely not a cheapo blade you'll find on an end cap.

It is interesting somebody mentioned the SF vs. KA-BAR debate. The reasons given thus far are as far as I know the exact ones behind why the Marines carry a KA-BAR and not the SF Commando dagger. One of the biggest if memory serves; a double-edged blade removes one of the crucial features of a knife-as-tool...the ability to use the back of the blade as a "bearing surface" with the off-hand as a means of extra power or increased control. I believe this is why kitchen knives are always single-edged; using the heel of the hand for dicing is a basic need when cooking.

The slim, fragile point and thin blade on the SF(easily snapped when used as a pry-bar, something soldiers often wanted to use their knives for) were next on the list. Simply put, the SF dagger was a specialized weapon, whereas the KA-BAR is an inclusive, basic tool that is good enough as a killing implement should the need arise.

The "tool-weapon" thing is why some municipalities ban double-edged knives I think. They're only for killing people, whereas a single-edged knife can legitimately be called a tool. If you're carrying a double-edged knife of any size you probably mean somebody harm, but if you're carrying a single-edged knife you might just be a hunter/craftsman/handyman who needs the knife for legitimate "peaceful" purposes.

Less outdoors/industrial area so much as a town that's not exactly safe.

So after asking I figured out one of my friends has a Gerber Covert Auto which is just perfect for what I had in mind.

Was a Christmas present from her boyfriend.

But looking about that thing is a bit pricey, I don't suppose any of you know where I could get something similar for less? Or just like a discount knife store or something.

A lot of lockblades have a hole in the blade or a raised bit on the blade so it can be opened one-handed by the ball of the thumb, no fingernails required.

What sort of scenarios do you envision needing to use a knife and what do you hope it to achieve? Do you have the training required to use a knife for self-defense?

Great Marc MacYoung quote, DS.

edited 3rd Jan '14 3:02:32 AM by Wolf1066

I was hitting two birds with one stone in my last post. For you, a small Buck knife would be fine. As for the CRKT knives, that was a general comment toward the entire thread. CRKT does have some simpler, more modular knives, but I wouldn't recommend the M16 knife for your purposes.

I'm going through Buck's knives right now and I'm liking what I'm seeing for the most part. CRKT is just way out of my price range

I know where to get proper lessons from knowledgeable people but just the sight of a knife or firearm here is usually enough, even if it's just visible on your person. High crime rate doesn't mean stupidity, crooks here are smart enough to know it's not worth getting stabbed over the $15 in your wallet. Most of them at least.

Honestly I'd rather have a sub compact pistol or something but there's a lot more legal business there and that's not even going into the cost.

But recently a good friend of mine ended up flipping his car and had to cut his way out of his seatbelt while upside down. Now I drive on that road just about everyday and it just sort of clicked that I've got nothing in case that happens to me.

edited 3rd Jan '14 11:54:29 AM by LeGarcon

Carrying a knife as a tool, I can understand. Carrying one as a weapon for self-defense, not so much.

To me, a knife is a handy tool which makes it, at best, a mediocre weapon. Especially when stacked up against purpose-made weapons.

Sure, you can get knives - like the Sykes-Fairbairn - that is a purpose-made weapon but even they fall far of the mark when stacked up against something with some range to it, including other makeshift weapons such as a baseball bat, let alone a firearm.

A knife, when used as a weapon, qualifies as a lethal weapon, which means that using it is contingent on certain legal criteria - that you are actively being attacked in such a way that your life is in imminent danger and the use of lethal force is justified.

And the problem I see with a knife is that by the time you're in that situation, you probably don't have a lot of time to deploy the knife.

In all the cases I've heard of here in NZ, the successful use of a knife (or other pointed/edged tools) has been by the aggressor, from a state of readied concealment.

That is to say, they've already had the knife (or, in one case I heard, screwdriver) in their hand but concealed from their intended victim and the first thing the victim knew about the attack was that they had been stabbed.

The aggressor wasn't making their intentions known at a distance or giving the victim time to deploy a weapon. The aggressor wasn't interested in a "fair fight" or risking getting wounded in return. The aggressor was going to overwhelm the victim with an advantage and do enough damage that they need not fear retribution/retaliation.

Hence they got up close enough to strike and then did so using a blade that their victim had no knowledge of.

Under those circumstances, having a knife on your person for "self-defense" is bloody pointless.

So, given that I'm unlikely to know that the person is armed - thus warranting the use of a lethal weapon - until after I'm slumped in a corner trying to stop the bleeding, I don't see the point in relying on a knife that is going to take some time to deploy - and even a sheath-knife takes more time to deploy than the time I have to react to a person who has already stuck something sharp somewhere vital or incapacitating.

And that's just knife vs knife. If someone is standing off at some remove producing a firearm or even brandishing a baseball bat, golf club, galvanised pipe or even a stick, then what the fuck is my having a knife going to achieve?

edited 3rd Jan '14 1:48:36 PM by Wolf1066

Which is exactly why I came here before I bought one, Thank You. You probably saved me a fair amount of money.

So knives for seatbelts/heavy fabrics/rope then, Buck still looks be in my price range and I'm assuming they'll work for that purpose.

edited 3rd Jan '14 1:55:47 PM by LeGarcon

I'm posting your comment in the Martial Arts thread. Several knife defense instructors have expressed similar thoughts on knives and knife fighting.

Adding to that, most people are not psychologically prepared to fight or kill with a knife.

Or most weapons (even improvised ones). <_< Killing in the heat of the moment? Often doable. Then you receive the psychological bill in the mail.

As it's been said by many psychologists, especially those who have worked for the military and the criminal justice system, most human beings actually have an aversion to violence. Efficient use of violence is a psychologically conditioned response, and contrary to what many movies and TV shows espouse, people tend to engage in conflict avoidance. If people actually followed through their threats to, for example, punch that guy who cut them off in traffic, civilization would be much less stable.

More on topic, weapons can augment one's willingness to engage in violence because they act as equalizers in a confrontation. Even if you don't actually deploy it in a fight, just having a knife on your person can (but obviously not always) compel you to take action against an assailant when you normally wouldn't without said weapon.

edited 3rd Jan '14 2:25:10 PM by Aprilla

A blunt instrument makes a much better offensive weapon, IMHO, than any knife short of a short sword. Actually, probably the best defensive item you can carry, in densely populated areas at least, is an air horn. At close range, with the horn pointed directly at you, it hurts. At the same time, it screams "help" to everyone within say, a quarter mile. That's pretty intimidating to an amateur criminal, which is what most street muggers are. There are lights you can buy which are bright enough to temporarily blind someone when pointed directly into the eyes (a laser pointer can do that to). These devices are only intended to give one a temporary opportunity to get away before the attacker can grab you or hurt you. Next best would be a liquid squirtible pepper spray. The very best would be an aerosol pepper spray, but those aren't available everywhere.

A gun is much more capable than any of these items, but then you run afoul of lethal weapons laws. Even if you can get a concealed carry permit, that doesnt help you if you use one on someone and the law determines that you didnt have just cause. Also, statistically, guns are as harmful to untrained owners as they are to potential attackers. This is because a fair number of people who try to use one miss at point blank range, and end up getting shot.

There is no perfect defense tactic, once you are in trouble. Ideally, you pay attention to what is going on around you, and avoid questionable areas. Dont get into a confrontation and you never get hurt.

True story: somebody I knew at uni kept an illegal ferret in digs which he also used to cart around with him during lectures (don't ask me how he handled the books, the folders and the wriggling tickler of doom all in one go — I have no idea). Wound up being a blessing in disguise. Protip: don't try mugging a bloke carrying a ferret. The ferret not only will stink you up, but, damn... those teeth. <shudders>

So, a ferret might not be quite so controllable as a knife when it comes to being classed as a "tool". But, you try finding it under "offensive weapons".

Man, ferrets will fuck you up bad. Now if I could somehow keep a mongoose on my person at all times...

That actually reminds me of a guy who got his dog registered as an emotional support animal so he could bring her anywhere.

Because nobody is going to mess with a dude and his 200 pound dog.

edited 3rd Jan '14 3:04:05 PM by LeGarcon

My roommate came up with this idea: a glass jar full of spiders!

What is this? The Hunger Games?

Anyway, if you just need a little general-purpose knife, just get something that is easy to carry, rust-resistant, fairly sharp and with a good grip. If you need something that can cut through wires, plastic or a seat belt, you might want to get a knife with a serrated edge on the lower end of the blade. One of my Ozark knives has square teeth on the back of the blade that can be used to defeat some metal wiring and fencing.

edited 3rd Jan '14 3:30:21 PM by Aprilla

If you're interested in knife-as-tool and the specific scenario of cutting yourself loose from a seat belt, there are purpose-made "rescue knives" out there with a recessed blade built into the grip specifically for cutting seatbelts without having to open the blade (and without cutting yourself while you're trying to slip it between your body and the seat belt) and also often incorporate glass-breakers.

And the other advantage (aside from, you know, a safe way to cut a seatbelt, being able to break the car window if trapped/submerged and having a good versatile knife...) is that if anyone (i.e. police) looks at it the first thought is generally "tool", not "weapon".

The knives I've bought have been for their function as tools and what they do best.

Wolf: I would argue that assessment is true of any defensive weapon under those circumstances. Unless you become aware enough in advance your SOL.

A lot of defensive weapons are situational at best. You often have to know you are heading into trouble or are about to encounter so you can prepare them for use before it hits the fan.

The thing with a knife is that if you know you're in danger long enough before the situation comes to a head to deploy it, you really wouldn't want the attacker getting close enough for you to use it, anyway.

Basically, the only way to avoid saying, as one knife victim did, "I thought he punched me, then I felt the blood", is to not let a potentially hostile person get that bloody close to you to begin with. Simple as that. If he can't reach you, he can't hurt you.

If you can reach him, he can also reach and hurt you.

Your awareness of the situation, your attempts at evasion, de-escalation etc and, hopefully, your ability to "runneth like fuck" should render moot the need to use a knife.

With longer-ranged weapons, while all those possibilities apply, the possibility of being having the ability to keep your distance and gain time to deploy if required.

Readying a weapon before proceding into a dangerous/hostile situation is one of those things for which there are very few legal reasons - you'd have to have a good legal reason to do so rather than evade the situation entirely.

Under most circumstances, readying a weapon then proceding into a hostile situation is not "self-defense", it's fighting. Fine for a soldier or a cop, for whom it is their job to wade into hostile situations. Not so great for John Q. Public who now has to explain to a judge and jury why they felt the need to escalate the situation by drawing a weapon and seeking it out.

Knives are generally used by an aggressor to stack the deck in their favour against an unarmed, and usually unsuspecting, victim. Not generally used by a person seeking to defend themselves against an extremely small subset of attacks that a) warrant lethal force, b) against which a knife is effective and c) happen within melee range with sufficient warning to deploy a knife.

Marc MacYoung, quoted by Drunkscriblerian in his sig-line, has a lot to say on the topic of self-defense vs fighting - from the view point of people living in the USA where the law permits the carrying of firearms for the express purpose of defending oneself.

And I still contend it applies equally to all weapons. Unless you can prepare yourself ahead of time in the scenario you specified those weapons regardless of reach are useless until after the fact.

Reach is only useful if the weapon is ready to use. Reach is meaningless if it is still holstered, folded, collapsed, carried at the trail, etc.

A readied opponent against the unsuspecting/unaware victim will most likely be the one on top of things in the few short seconds it takes for things to go down.

If they got the drop on you, they got the drop on you. It is too late to change things at that point.

Most people don't know how to defend themselves with any weapon much less a gun, knife, or baton. The world is full of stupid dangerous amateurs who will possibly learn lessons the very hard way.

Being aware of your surroundings and evading trouble as noted is far more useful then being an unlucky bastard who is needing a weapon in the first place.

Any weapon can be used defensively but you have to know where, when, and how to use it for it to be of any use.

Even the guy from the sig points out unless you know what your doing your advantages are not worth spit if you haven't got a clue as to what you are doing with said advantages. He even points out the problem is not generally the weapons it is the people wielding them. Namely they never bother learn from an actual worthwhile source how to properly use what they are wielding.

Just like the problem of learnign Martial arts/self defense. There are more people out there just trying to make a buck then are people who have actual practical working knowledge of the subject.

Yeah, I figured you were basing some of your information on Mac Young's writing. Good info.