Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Brenner's Wolves Fight Again
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
I has not even been 4 years yet. So I would not call it forever war just yet.
Removed contents of this post because was thumped.
Edited by HallowHawk on Apr 24th 2024 at 11:12:45 AM
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 24, 2024
- Biden signed the aid bill. It may arrive to the front in few weeks.
- US reportedly provided ATACMS missiles in March in secret.
- Ukraine attacked industry and energy facilities in Smolenks at Lipetsk oblasts.
- Russian Defence Deputy Minister Ivan Timurov was arrested.
- Russia continues to complain about Armenia distancing itself from Russia.
- Moldova is charging Gagauzia's governor campaign finance violations.
- Russia made small gains near Adiivka, Donetsk city and Robotne.
- Russia plans to ban extraditions of foreigners that fought on their side in the war.
Edited by Risa123 on Apr 25th 2024 at 11:09:54 AM
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1783525558229307632
Nexta's citing info from FT c/o Polish Defense Ministry.
According to Kosiniak-Kamysz, they may be deported.
As of the beginning of the year there were up to 200 thousand Ukrainian men in Poland.
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 25, 2024
- Russia is stabilizing their positions northeast of Adiivka.
- They may exploit this position for further gains.
- US is worried that their current aid is not enough.
- Russia is deploying drones that are more resistant to electronic warfare.
- Russian mill blogger Rybar has opened a "media school" in Balkans. This will further pro-Russian propaganda.
- Ukraine made gains near Siversk.
- Russia made gains near Adiivka and Zaporizhia-Donetsk border.
- Russia is nationalizing some parts of defence industry.
Heard about one of the Russian gains near Avdiivka. Ukraine attempted to rotate out the 47th Mechanized back to the rear for rest and resupply, but the 115th Mechanized who were supposed to close the gap were beaten to the punch by the Russian 30th Motorized, who charged several kilometers ahead and took the 47th's former position.
Ukrainian command panicked and threw the 100th Mechanized into the fray, who managed to stop the Russians from fully breaking through, but they're just a former territorial defense unit with no heavy weapons while the Russians have a full armored division in reserve nearby.
Analysts are agreeing that this is a sign of the Ukrainian forces and commanders being critically exhausted to the point where they're starting to make major tactical errors.
This. Cannot. Continue.
Well, unless the aid package got some updates over the time the fucking MAGAts were sitting on it, it was meant to address the battlefield situation of several months ago, not the battlefield situation resulting from months of ammo shortages.
And oh, the screaming from Magic the Gathering and her ilk if the Senate tries to send more aid... I actually miss the neocons. I feel dirty for typing that, but I do.
Is there a good name for those Putin propagandists? I see them all the time in the comments sections of YouTube and news sites whenever anything vaguely Ukraine or Russia-related comes up - "Zelensky is so much worse than Putin," "the neo-Nazis in America support Ukraine," "Putin is controversial but undeniably a great leader," etc. I'm just not sure what to call them. Paid trolls? Strongman simps? Psyoperatives?
Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"
Vatnik's always an option.
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
I also heard the term "zetnik" being used for pro-Pu zealots (due to them picking letter "Z" as their symbol).
In the name of being honest
Well, the US aid only concerns materiel and training. It can't bring back all the Ukrainian servicemembers who lost their lives in the months that House GOP stonewalled the aid, or help with the fact that a big chunk of Ukraine's combat force is exhausted from being on the line for two years straight — hence the new conscription laws that Zelensky signed this month.
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
The Wanderer
Ukraine pulls US-provided Abrams tanks from the front lines over Russian drone threats
I suppose the question is whether the A2 and upcoming A3 would fare any differently.
(The article specifies that the tanks are the M1A1 model)
Edited by rmctagg09 on Apr 26th 2024 at 2:44:18 PM
Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.
As independent units? No, they would not.
The US army is investing heavily in anti-drone units though, and tanks don't operate alone under NATO doctrine,
Chieftain has actually shown some of the more open anti-drone developments on his channel.
Edited by Imca on Apr 26th 2024 at 10:02:39 PM
In the name of being honest
The main threats to tanks are artillery shells (which can be called in by drones) and mines (which usually don't kill tanks beyond repair on their own but leave them immobilised on a hostile battlefield). Breaching a defensive line defended by large amounts of both is extremely difficult for any army, and neither have any practical counters from the tanks themselves. The only answer is to use mass and combined arms to suppress enemy fires while moving through a defended zone.
Echoing hymn of my fellow passerine | Art blog (under construction)
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, April 26, 2024
- China blames NATO for the invasion.
- More aid is being worked on.
- Russia is expanding the definition of anti-war to persecute dissent.
- Russia advanced near Adiivka.
- Ukraine advanced on left bank of Kherson.
"Ukraine advanced on left bank of Kherson." - really? Didn't find it (or any Ukrainian advances) in the report. The report said Russia advanced near Krynky. (Also, either "in left-bank Kherson oblast" or "on the left bank of the Dnieper")
Edited by Smeagol17 on Apr 27th 2024 at 11:22:11 AM
What? I literally just text-searched the page for "bank" and immediately found this:
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Apr 27th 2024 at 10:24:23 AM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
This is in their summary, but it is probably a mistake, because in body:
Edited by Smeagol17 on Apr 27th 2024 at 11:34:47 AM
Oh, bother.
I am so tired of people not bothering to read the articles before commenting on them.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Ok, so what is true ?
Oh, bother.
I assume the key takeaway.
Disgusted, but not surprised
The [65] source is a Ukrainian one, but who knows how ISW is using it.
Edited by Smeagol17 on Apr 27th 2024 at 12:57:12 PM
Who Am I?
I advise not getting too obsessed over small geographic advances and retreats. It's not about territory, it's about loss ratios. If the Russians are paying for these advances with men or material they cannot easily replace, then it won't have been worth it. Also beware over-hyped claims on both sides. The Ukrainian general defenses were never in danger of collapsing, and the Russians aren't leaving Ukraine any time soon.
Regardless of anything the US or the rest of the world does, this conflict is likely to go one for at least a few more years.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Organized Canine Bureau Special Agent
First vids of a Yak-52 trainer jet shooting at an Orlan-10.
Edited by Ominae on Apr 27th 2024 at 9:20:49 AM
"Exit muna si Polgas. Ang kailangan dito ay si Dobermaxx!"