The New New Touhou Character Alternate Interpretation Compendium

The implication I got from Youmu's ending was that Yuyuko was trying to teach Youmu discipline and such via the tea ceremony stuff (and other such metaphors) and Youmu is too dumb and literal minded to get it. I don't really think it reflects badly on Yuyuko, and Eiki's response to it in her own story is basically "you didn't get it so I am going to spell it out for you".

But again, enough Youmu.

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That does a good job of explaining why she can be so whimsical, cheerful and uncaring about everything. I mean, what can they do to her?

Even if she did have to face the Yama, she's already missed her chance to cross the sanzu and would have to live again before she'd get another one. If she lived well during that life she'd have to be judged on that so anything that came before would be meaningless anyway.

There's really no punishment anyone could give her save taking away her food, and she'd just have Youmu get some more.

The eyes are the windows that let us gaze upon the soul.

Uh... they could also take Youmu away you know. Or more specifically, her authority and servants.

>The same thing has happened to other people

That contradicts the old record. What I didn't say is, from a common person's perspective, that old record is very moving and relatable. "I love her, so I wish she would never suffer again." Making such a powerful piece of fiction non-canon would be a sad thing.

One Alternate Interpretation I'm considering, is Yukari purposely used the chance of sealing Saigyou Ayakashi to turn Yuyuko into someone more like her - a powerful and unaging youkai, so they can be together forever. I'm surprised that apparently no doujin creator has considered this angle.

edited 1st Nov '13 9:36:25 AM by atrican

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So it's a vampire love sort of thing then?

I kinda like the idea that if Yukari was the one who sealed her, she did it in part because it would allow them to be together forever and all. Yeah, the letter implies that the person who sealed her was very close to her.

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See Sakuya's Phantasm route, which has a conversation along the lines of "There are no real laws here." "What about the Yama?" "Pfft, sure she's pretty much omnipotent, but all you have to do is outsmart her."

Now does anyone have any musicdumps?

edited 1st Nov '13 1:24:18 PM by Prime32

I think it reflects poorly on her teaching skills (if she was trying to teach), or on her 'can't touch this attitude' (if she was just trolling and nothing else). Part of teaching is making sure your student learns. For Youmu, a much less subtle approach is necessary... going with the tea ceremonies isn't going to help her. When a 5 year old asks why the sky is blue, you don't bust out light refraction equations and explain how blue light's energy compares to red light's to explain the matter. Instead, you'd get a prism and be like "See how the different colors come out? The sky is like a big prism and we live in the blue area here." or something like that.

I dunno. I suspect if Yuyuko acted up, there'd be serious problems. Her manipulation of the dead as well as her permanent residence in the place where the dead are are pretty big obstacles to work around. Maybe they'd unseal the tree if it came down to it. Better to let the Saiyou Ayakashi run rampant (?) than have the entire reincarnation cycle mucked up. Even then, she'd be a real problem to remove forcibly, even if Yukari didn't get involved.

Ohhh, I like. And using a symbol of beauty like a cherry blossom tree to do it seems like it would appeal to Yukari's way of thinking. Ahhh, how romantic.

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

I guess it does, but I don't really see a problem with being subtle. Maybe it's the wrong approach with Youmu, but it is the approach I can see Yuyuko being more comfortable with doing.

I can see her attempting a more straightforward explanation and then getting a blank look from Youmu, forcing her to dial back a bit and struggle to explain it in a way someone dense like Youmu can understand.

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This, basically. And Yuyuko choosing to do it anyway means either 1: She doesn't know Youmu well enough to know that it's a poor way to teach her (unlikely, since Yuyuko's known Youmu literally the entirety of the latter's life. And at other points its pretty clear that Yuyuko realizes Youmu isn't exactly gifted and talented material.) or 2: She's not interested in teaching Youmu *

edited 1st Nov '13 5:48:13 PM by Antimatter625

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

Someone commented before that the two aren't particularly close. They have a master and servant relationship, but not a "Alfred and Bruce Wayne" relationship. More like "employee and boss".

I do think that is just how Yuyuko prefers to teach. Like I said, I can't see her be straightforward without either being too detailed or stumbling to phrase it in a way that Youmu gets. Either way, after Youmu fails to get it, she gives up and they have tea. Even people who are otherwise smart and competent have their failings.

edited 1st Nov '13 5:55:22 PM by Otherarrow

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That's certainly true. Teaching is a skill like any other. People great at one may not be good at another. See also: math professors. Its not like "teach a child the fundamental truths of the universe" is technically part of her job description.

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

Mmm. That's a pretty sweet and romantic possibility.

---

I just thought of something crazy. Yuyuko knows poetry, yeah? There's another person who also dabbles in poetry. Why, I'm talking about the resident zombie, Yoshika Miyako! Possible friends? They can start a Poetry Club or something!

Ah... If only Yoshika wasn't the jiangshi type of zombie, didn't have a rotting brain, and only did poetry in a trance...

It's worth noting that Youmu's clearly given up on trying to understand Yuyuko. This is not optimal for a student, particularly one that's fairly dumb to begin with

Well, the match is pretty terrible both ways (recall also that Youmu's technically Yuyuko's sword instructor. Yeah, I think we all know how those lesson's go). Really, Shikieiki really just put them in a terrible position when she said "Yuyuko! teach the girl!"

And Yuyuko's like "I heard 'tea'. This, I can do."

I write some fanfiction. Satori's Tale is done... but I'm not.

Could we call her the ghost with the most?

Here's where I smack myself in the head for not remembering she was born during the Heian era.

Oooh, this opens up the possibility that Yuyuko consented to her corpse being used as a sealant. Maybe the village had annual human sacrifices to keep the evil tree sated for another year, and Yuyuko decided to put an end to that once and for all.

And if you go with the "evil tree has an influence on ghost Yuyuko's behavior" theory, that may explain her appetite.

Ah, so Yukari's the type of person who, when she sees a certain confluence of thematic elements, bases her actions on what is most aesthetically-appealing? There's a tree of death and a girl with power over death who's considering suicide because of it, and her name and history and I've got to get this girl planted!

Eh, I prefer something a little more personable. Myon Myon Typhoon still has both my favorite interpretation of Yuyuko's character, and her relationship with Youmu.

Well, it's not my traditional role, but...

Ultimate acoustic from Diverse System
Ultimate acoustic with chorus from Diverse System
Ultimate chorus bombing from Rei, I think?
Blossoming big damn entrance from Tutti Sound
Blossoming vocals from =NeutraL=
Blossoming metal from nazz-can
Blossoming traditional instruments from Ecco\\

Current earworm: "Awe of the Unknown"

These are Yamas we are talking about. They can probably keep you out of the reincarnation cycle, if that is truly necessary. Like how they made an exception with Child of Miare and allow her special reincarnation circumstances.

It probably is that dangerous. It is fairly clear that Yukari couldn't handle the tree. The tree is like 2 Yukaris or something. If we can use Yukaris as a measuring tool.

Eiki is also pretty close to being omniscient as well. Her dialogues with other characters heavily implies that she already knows what is going on.

They work with each other. I don't see any reason for the Yamas to mess with Yuyuko, unless Yuyuko messed up somehow.

Forgot to comment on this:

Is it established? Kaguya seems fine with being removed from the reincarnation cycle. I understand that in Yuyuko's perspective that is a horrible thing, but other characters don't have that same perspective.

Some things that I think may have happened back then. Consider that Yuyuko and Yukari's theme deals with butterflies and their weapon of choice is a fan. It is possible that they trained together back then. Also, I would like to think that Yukari is probably the original user of the Roukanken, like in that doujin. It is a Youkai-forged sword and I find it odd how Youmu came into its possession, when she isn't a Youkai.

As for being the ruler of the Netherworld, Yuyuko is probably one of the better choices. She has the intelligence and ability to rule this place. This place is even bigger than Hell, which is 40,000 (280,000 kilometers) Yojana or something. To rule a world so big, some skill is necessary.

Everything is relative.

I don't think it is stated anywhere that the Yama can just remove folks from the reincarnation cycle even if they wanted to. The Child of Miare has to actively work to keep herself reincarnating, there is a whole ritual she has to do, and she has to petition the Yama and get her OK, and so on. The Yama is OK with it, but it's not something she can do with with a wave of her hand. If that makes sense.

edited 2nd Nov '13 4:18:30 AM by Otherarrow

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Half of her is a youkai.

No, half of her is a ghost. Not exactly the same thing.

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Ghosts are youkai.

They are youkai in the sense of "everything not human is a youkai" but they technically aren't youkai in the sense that the non-ghost youkai of Gensoukyou are youkai.

Someone else can explain this better than I can.

At the very least, I wouldn't consider Youmu "half youkai" because she is half ghost, since we don't know just how that came to be.

Anyway, Youmu is not Yuyuko, so you better tie this to Yuyuko or I will complain about you getting off topic.

edited 2nd Nov '13 6:19:31 AM by Otherarrow

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I think there was a post about Yukari not fixing borders, but can't find it now.

In the actual Phantasm dialog, you can see that Marisa and Sakuya had completely forgotten about the border business. Reimu remembered it at the start, but also forgot it after the battle.

Another interesting detail: in the Extra story, Yuyuko not only asked the protagonists to go find Yukari, but also to beat Ran, who had occupied the Hakugyoukurou garden for herself.

Yuyuko is not on friendly terms with Ran. However, she's clever enough to send someone else to punish Ran, and let them face Yukari's fury in her stead. I think when that someone else managed to defeat Yukari, Yuyuko probably considered this as a prank well played.

That's the overall problem with Yuyuko: she's smart enough to manipulate everyone, but she often only uses that to satisfy her selfish whims. This is what makes her lecturing feel hypocritical.

Many things - the spring snow incident, the PCB Ex stages and the unfixed border, and SWR, would not happen if Yuyuko go straight to Yukari and tell her about it. Then again, if she did all that, there'd be no story.

edited 2nd Nov '13 7:35:59 AM by atrican

Stop atrican from crawling out of the dumpster! Touhou status updates

Border of Life is Yuyuko's theme for when she feels like being majestic. Ghost Lead is her theme for when she feels like being whimsically random.

Original Lead.
Piano Lead.
Metal Vocal Lead.
Ominous Lead.
Party Lead.

edited 2nd Nov '13 10:55:08 AM by Diamite

Other thread.