UQ Holder

The same scene implied she could have died if Touta haven't intervened. That scene could be taken either way, really. Touta was also chopped and regenerated, but I don't think we were meant to infer her is invincible.

In a more meta way to interpret the story. I think the discussion between 'immortality' and 'invincibility' was shown precisely to clear this off. If all the characters who were introduced as 'immortal' were also 'invincible', than making the distinction this early was not necessary. But if they are only one and not the two, than this talk was important to clarify possible points of confusion early on. The manga pretty much opened with that distinction, so I believe it is meant to be important.

Chachameru was made relatively recently. She didn't her most of the time. Not sure about Chachazero, but she's not much of a companion even if she were alot older.

It seems to be established that eva won't die of old age(or age for that matter) and is really, really, really, hard to kill.

Also, on this topic of Eva assuming she knows what she's talking about when she says immortality sucks. Remember what I said earlier? Immortal life is just like normal life except longer. And Eva has had a shitty life. She was vampirized against her will (by contrast, Touta chose it), she lost her family in the process of said vampirization (Touta doesn't remember his parents), she spent the majority of her time being shunned and despised by humans due to prejudice against vampires (time will tell how Touta deals with this), and she was constantly at war with the bounty hunters trying to kill her, unable to settle down or form meaningful social connections besides what were basically two glorified imaginary friends. Eva doesn't exactly have a positive outlook on life in general, it's no surprise she'd think immortal life would suck too, since she just sees it as a shitty life that's not going to end.

@Shlogu: I think Fantastic Aesop is a better description.

Not really. I only used "stupid" as idiomatically to emphasize his young age. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but Touta is ridiculously inexperienced when compared to Eva. His opinion shouldn't have the same weight as her at all.

So? And yet she maintained it regardless. She is 800 years old^note btw, I am rounding up. She was 700 in Negima, so she should be "around" 800 now. I think she deserves the credibility. She should know what she is talking about. More than Touta, anyway ^note or Negi and (memory less) Asuna, for that matter. Basically anyone with less than a tenth of her age who still disagreed with her.

That is not what I implied at all. You should read my post again. My opinion is the exact opposite of that. What I meant is that I hope the story doesn't concludes with a clear right and a clear wrong in which Eva is the wrong one. But if the story concludes more ambiguously, it would be the ideal.

Sorry, but what? I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

Maybe. Or maybe you just misused the tired meme.

If I'm going to sum up my argument, I think it's that Touta's a greenhorn with the whole immortality thing and he's got a lot to learn. But I still think his outlook is a lot healthier than Eva's, so both of them learning from each other would not be a bad thing at all. They represent one of two extremes. Ultimately, I hope the series paints immortality as a positive thing while still acknowledging its flaws. Because otherwise, what is the point of a series whose theme is immortality if it's just going to reiterate the whole "urrrrrgh immortality sucks I wanna die but I caaaaaaan't" emo bullshit we see all the time in fiction?

I was happy that Touta was a Firo rather than a Maiza because the prevalence of immortality wangst in fiction really gets under my fucking skin given how many series never acknowledge all the things that make living forever awesome.

Also, the day I admit that is a tired meme is the day I die

edited 31st Aug '13 6:08:38 PM by KSPAM

Working on it, biguzi.

@ Eva being immortal VS. Invincible: Any one else remember her saying that she'd been burned at the stake? After her battle with Setstuna in chap 108 she gives a shortened life story. I interpret that as she was mostly burned to ashes and still got herself back together.

@KSPAM: Also keep in mind that at this point in the series, the past 80 years of her life have been a lot better. She's literally lived an entire lifetime in a positive fashion. Also we have no real idea if immortal life is "like regular life but longer" because we don't have any immortal people hanging around. And in-universe, Eva is the one who does have the experience.

Touta thinks it's going to be awesome, and he may be right, but when he makes this statement he's literally only been immortal for about five minutes. I wouldn't say he's at all qualified to talk about whether or not it's a good thing until he has at least a hundred years of experience.

I'm not saying that he's wrong or anything, or that the series needs to end with immortality being bad (it shouldn't; no-one wants Wangst), but at the same time I'm not taking Touta's statement at face value because he's extremely uninformed about the matter at hand. It's like somebody declaring that their new job is the best job ever on the basis of there being a popcorn machine in the break room. It's certainly a perk, but until you've put in a few weeks, you won't be aware of all the potential problems, like the fact that the boss is a jerk, the bathroom always stinks, and you only get 20 minutes for lunch.

@Shulgo: Who says the series has to have an aesop at all? Maybe he just thought it would be a cool theme to build a story around.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:16:03 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Thanks!

edited 31st Aug '13 6:13:45 PM by biguzi

As a mortal man, I don't want to hear about how awesome it'd be to live forever. That's just depressing.

How are they going to make it a theme anyway? By maiming Touta a lot?

What's eighty positive years compared to six or seven hundred negative ones, especially when it ended with her losing her new friends, disillusioning her all over again? Speaking from Eva's perspective, I doubt it changed much in terms of the way she looks at her immortality.

All I'm saying is I don't want this to be another series about immortality angst. The only story that ever handled that remotely well in my opinion is Hellsing, and that was mostly because everything else was so goddamn awesome.

It's supposed to be depressing because you should want to live forever because living forever is awesome. Thankfully, we have science working on helping us do just that.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:17:34 PM by KSPAM

Huh, I though science mostly worked on more efficient ways can kill ourselves in?

And how'd you know living forever is awesome? Do you know something rest of us don't, hmmmm?

edited 31st Aug '13 6:19:29 PM by Shlugo_the_great

5xBut he indirectly admited it's flaws, his point is immortality he share with Eva is not bad thing and in that metter she also has only around five minutes of experience or so...

edited 31st Aug '13 6:20:07 PM by Tenzen12

Spoilers from this post translated:

In a village along the way, they meet a girl(?) named Yuuki Shinobu and fix her flying motorcycle.

Shinobu is also heading for the tower. At the base, there is a competition held once every eight years, the Taiyoukei Olympics, and competing in them is Shinobu's dream.

Shinobu's dad looks just like Takamichi?

While they're with Shinobu, Yukihime returns to her usual young (Eva) form. Yukihime was using specially-made Age-Changing Pills to change her form.

Please don't tell me you're one of those people. And I know immortality is awesome because dying sucks. Simple as that.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:21:18 PM by KSPAM

Really, a tournament already? oh well let's see how it goes.

First thing we do with any new technology is look for military applications. Don't even try to pretend it's not true.

Oh, boy, I can't contend with such well reasoned argument, I concede.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:22:54 PM by Shlugo_the_great

Thanks RS!

Humanity's most impressive achievements lie in the field of destruction.

But that's only 'cause a big boom is far more awe inspiring at first glance than, say, the group of technological, technical and academic advancements that has saved innumerable lives now. Meaning, sanitization.

The first thing we do with anything is try to find the way that it can be used most conveniently for self service. Whether that be 'blow the opposition up' or 'blow the opposition', it depends on the user.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:24:15 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

Okay, can we stop arguing with KSPAM? Not because he's right he's not, but because this is getting annoying.

No worries! And just so you know, her name is Shinobu. Though that's undoubtedly an intentionally unisex name...

Hey now, plenty of times we come up with a way to get our rocks off with it first.

Also, first =/= most.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:24:12 PM by rikalous

Figuring out that living in dirt is bad for us took as way too much time.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:24:22 PM by Shlugo_the_great

I didn't say humanity has a track record of intelligence.

Ingenious and clever, yes.

Intelligent?

Well, just take a look at Fanfiction.net and you'll get an idea.

See my edit. Self serving can include sexual gratification!

edited 31st Aug '13 6:26:39 PM by IAmNotCreativeEnough

Heatth: Being tech savvy and knowing how to design a magical doll are two different things. We know that's a specialty of Eva's, even if she never shows it.

Mild suffering is preferable because being able to feel anything is better than feeling nothing. No, you're not happy, but you're not exactly miserable. And nobody's life is shitty all the time with no bright spots and with no hope of change ever. Also, assuming they're alive right now, you'll almost surely outlive your parents and your grandparents. Does that make your relationship with them futile? What if you get married and your wife dies before you? Was that relationship meaningless? Just because a relationship ends doesn't make it worthless.

If Eva believes that, well, more power to her. I, however, think that in her situation most people would cope just fine. People get used to anything. I imagine Touta's viewpoint will probably match what I've been trying to get across, so presumably they'll rub off on each other. Eva won't think immortality is a total curse, Touta will get some experience. I think KSPAM put it quite well myself: How much you enjoy immortality probably depends on how much you enjoy life in general. I don't believe that immortality as as much of a blessing as he claims, but Eva's viewpoint really does have some clear flaws in it.

Shlugo: First thing military people do with a new technology is look for a way to kill each other. All the scientist wanted was to play with numbers and chemicals and shit. Military people tend to have a lot of power, so they can get their hands on things earlier than some businessman or doctor or whatever.

edited 31st Aug '13 6:29:42 PM by Arha

I'd rather feel pain than nothing at all.

Non existence is... a terrifying fate.