Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
What do you mean, the world has grown?
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.@rmctagg — TL;DR is that a few Palestinians attended a Sukkot meal in a settlement named Efrat, partially as, you know, neighbours and partially to complain to army personnel present about a roadblock (if I'm getting this right), and when they returned home the PA's police nabbed them.
@Handle:
We have a greater understanding of human rights and justice.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.We do? Let's see: hate for refugees in europe, a popular mass murdering president in the philippines and then there is Putin...
No, I don't see any greater appreciation for human rights in the world
edited 24th Oct '16 3:34:01 AM by nnokwoodeye1
It infuriates me that I find it infuriating that Israel gets to brag about this shit while in my native country I get weird looks for wearing bright colours as a man.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.I'm ashamed and a bit sick. We're supposed to be better than this.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the groundThe sentiment does you credit.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.Bibi just announced he is not joining the Paris peace conference.
Inter arma enim silent legesThe French forgot that bit about insanity - y'know, something about expecting a different result from doing the same thing over and over again?
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the groundWell, I think in this case it's more to be able to say that they tried.
How do you believe Trump's election would affect the Israeli-Palestinian situation?
"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent."I'm joining the question.
The only thing that makes life possible is permanent, intolerable uncertainty: not knowing what comes next. - Ursula K. Le GuinProbably polarize the Muslim Arab in Palestine and abroad even further.
Trump certainly wouldn't give a single fuck over Israel doing another "Operation Weed Cutter/Pillar of Population Control/Defensive Culling" since he was the "fuck Muslims" candidate.
Inter arma enim silent legesIt's hard to say. Trump's a wild card.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the groundSince he has Pence as his VP there's some worry here that he might cow to the religious side of the party and start a conflict with Iran. If such a thing were to occur I'd imagine Israel would likely become involved in some measure. IIRC he claimed something to the point of being "hands off" concerning entire Israel-Palestine affairs.
edited 9th Nov '16 11:50:16 AM by carbon-mantis
On the other hand, he also said he'd move the American embassy in Israel to "the eternal capital of the Jewish people, Jerusalem".
"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried. Most people were silent."Trump said a lot of things and is generally rather inconsistent. In his case, words are wind.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the groundYeah so far (going only by the victory speech) Trump isn't in charge the establishment Republicans are. Problem is, they want a war with Iran...
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI've got doubts we can really pull through a war with Iran.
Oh really when?Win? Sure, but I don't see that stopping the Republicans from trying.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI was thinking more pulling through without destroying the economy. I'm sure we'd win.
It'd be rougher than we think though.
Oh really when?Oh the economy is probably boned anyway, massive deregulation, tax cuts for the wealthy and Alaska being sold off so that Trump can buy a new jet (I jest but money will be syphoned from the government for Trump personally).
Economic collapse and war with Iran are 2 of the 3 squares on my Trump presidential bingo card, I need to come up with more.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Israel will be forced out of the West Bank eventually. The world has grown to much to allow something like this to stand for much longer.
I Bring Doom,and a bit of gloom, but mostly gloom.