Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
(Avatar by Coffee)
IDF Admits to Hiring at Least One Dick.
In case you guys are wondering, this is satire.
V
Israeli Labor Party leader Isaac Herzog writes to Jeremy Corbyn about 'sickening' anti-Semitism row
(Avatar by Coffee)
Well, his party members could use some education about Nazism and Hitler.
In other matters: HAMAS operative charged with various bad stuff. The optimist in me hopes it means that they'll actually start trying all of those fuckers that are in administrative detention. The pessimist in me says this is an exception.
The dark Mage of the playground
Eh, that ?former? london mayor tried to spin his words into "this is an 'oh snap' attack on Bibi as he himself said a while ago that Hitler only wanted to expel the jews and not kill them" but its not sure how geniune he is.
Either way its a good one.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Well, Bibi did say that the Mufti of Jerusalem in the era of WWII, Amin Alhusseini, planted the "total extermination" idea in Hitler's head, but that's blarney he spouted for political gain with his base. Nobody takes that seriously. (I hope.)
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
His base does, and that's danger enough.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Abu Khdeir ringleader gets life in jail plus 20 years for his part in the murder.
EDIT: Trump tells the Fail in an interview that Israel should continue building in the settlements.
edited 3rd May '16 11:16:56 AM by desdendelle
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
United Earth
Trump: "Enemies! I need ENEMIES!"
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
"DID YOU HEAR THE VOICE TOO? IS A GOOD PAIN"
Shameful Display
United Earth
They shot a woman with a tank shell? Overkill, much?
I tried to laugh, but came out as a hollow bark.
On the Israeli side, 67 soldiers and six civilians were killed, and up to 1,600 injured. Rockets and mortars launched from Gaza caused damage to homes and other buildings inside Israel.
I feel so tired. I want to cry.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
(Avatar by Coffee)
I think they shot the HAMAS/PIJ position with a tank and the woman was around. Blame her death on PIJ's exemplary location choice.
I'd also tell you this:
Shameful Display
[[http://www.newsweek.com/netanyahu-denounces-general-outrageous-holocaust-comparison-457061
NETANYAHU DENOUNCES GENERAL FOR 'OUTRAGEOUS' HOLOCAUST COMPARISON]] You know it's bad when even the IDF thinks your being to brutal.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Netanyahu, as should surprise nobody here by this point, is a politician with one goal and one goal only: being top dog. He'll lick any amount of spittle and kiss any amount of asses to do so; this is just the latest of him kissing Bennett's (and his own party's more radical wing's) ass.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
That soldier charged with summarily murdering a wounded militant is going on trial now.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36246866
But the trial isn't my big question; I want to know how the hell a 19 year old is a sergeant? Is that common in the IDF? Does it mean the same thing it does in Western volunteer armies (a decently experienced NCO)?
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Field Marshal of Cracked
probably means influential parents and him being not *quite* bright enough to be an officer, though if you look at certain country's history of officers... that is one hell of an achievement
advancing the front into TV Tropes
That just means that he served over 14 months.(Well, not exactly, there are other possibilities, but that's the most likely explanation)
edited 10th May '16 4:07:45 AM by Cag
(Avatar by Coffee)
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Enlisted ranks (private to sergeant first class) are earned solely on the basis of time served — it just means that this guy was around for a bit more than a year (people on active fighting duty get to corporal about... four months earlier? IIRC). Good example — I'm a sergeant first class despite doing the same thing for most of my service (moving papers around). It should be noted that I'm a reservist, though — for all intents and purposes a civilian unless called for duty.
Ah, so that's just the IDF promotion process? And Sgt 1st class isn't considered a true NCO? Cool.
edited 10th May '16 2:46:48 PM by Rationalinsanity
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Field Marshal of Cracked
huh, just seemed a little young
advancing the front into TV Tropes
The dark Mage of the playground
Well well well, Liberman is going to be the Minister of Defense.
I dont know about you fellow Israelis, but im cleaning my shelter.
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
It's been two years since Protective Edge. We're about due for a lawn-mowing operation, aren't we?
What's precedent ever done for us?
United Earth
Please don't call it that.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Call it what it is — ie, the biannual summer election war.
@Superdark: well, right now my mum's most popular complaint/joke is "we should move to Canada".
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]")
Hm, I think the bit I'm remembering was with a reporter calling him a "gentle, poor person" live? Or something? That was ages ago.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground