Right. Given the high quality of discussion on OTC about other issues, it would be nice to have some Troper input on this thorniest of Middle Eastern issues. Tropers wanting a brief overview of Israel should check out its Useful Notes page, or Israel
and Palestine's country profiles on the BBC.
At the outset, however, I want to make something very clear: This thread will be about sharing and discussing news. Discussions about whether the existence of Israel is justified would be off-topic, as would any extended argument or analysis about the countries' history.
So, let's start off:
At the moment, the two countries, prodded by the United States, are currently attempting to negotiate peace. A previous round of talks collapsed in 2010 after Israel refused to order a halt to settlement building on Palestinian land. US mediators will be present.
The aim of the talks is to end the conflict based on the "two state solution" - where independent Palestinian and Israeli states exist alongside each other. Both sides have expressed cynicism, although the US government has said it is "cautiously optimistic".
Key issues of the talks:
- Jerusalem: The city is holy to both Islam and Judaism. Both Palestine and Israel claim it as their capital. Israel has de facto control over most of it, a situation its Prime Minister has said will persist for "eternity". Some campaigners hope it can become an international city under UN or joint Israeli/Palestinian administration.
- Borders and settlements: The Palestinian Authority claims that the land conquered by Israel in the Six Day War of 1967 (the West Bank and the Gaza Strip) is illegally occupied, and must be vacated by Israel in the event of a future Palestinian state. However, there are over 500,000 Israeli citizens living in settlements across the "Green line". Israel claims that a future Palestinian government would oppress or ethnically cleanse them, whilst many settlers claim that the land is rightfully theirs, as they have an ethno-religious link to it as part of the ancestral homeland of the Jewish people.
- Palestinian refugees: In 1948, around 700,000 Palestinian Arabs left the territory of the new Israeli state. The reasons why are still debated - preferably elsewhere. The Palestinian negotiators wish for them and their descendants to have a right of return to Israel. The Israeli government considers only those who were actually forced away all those years ago to have a legitimate claim (if that). The US government considers them all refugees, to Republican fury.
So you can see why its never been fixed. The religious dimension in particular has a lot of people vexed - asking Muslims or Jews to abandon Jerusalem has been likened to asking Catholics to skip communion.
Still, there's hope. Somewhere. The latest developments in the region:
- Israel has released 26 imprisoned Palestinian prisoners convicted of attacks on Israeli civilians and agreed to release another 78 in the future.
- Israel has OK'ed development of 900 new homes east of the "Green Line" in a controversial move ahead of the talks.
- Hamas is to execute publicly two prisoners in Gaza
- The new Palestinian government will not reunite the feuding Gazan and Transjordanian (West Bank) elements of Hamas and Fatah.
edited 15th Aug '13 2:10:49 PM by Achaemenid
Shameful Display
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Decided to do the morally right thing. Good, I wish we saw more of that in politics. Hopefully Turkey will be to occupied getting butthurt at the Pope, and you can stand with your principles and still receive Erdojan's support.
(Avatar by Coffee)
It seems he and Bennett can't agree about the number of ministries Bennett's party will get.
He also has trouble with Lieberman because (apparently) Lieberman and the UOJs are at odds with each other on some state-and-church matters.
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
It should be a formal or informal rule that the number of ministries is directly proportional to your share of the coalition.
Thus speaks yoneld:
Formal. Only way to make sure it's actually followed. And limit the number of ministries to 18.
Bennett unfortunately knows exactly how crucial he is to Bibi forming a government. Lieberman can suck lemons though. Likud don't need him.
(Avatar by Coffee)
Not quite. Even with Bennett, the UOJs and Kahlon Bibi only has 61 seats (out of 120) and that means he'll have problems, not to mention that out of those four parties, only two are in his pocket (United Torah Judaism and Shas). Bennett, as mentioned, is being problematic, and Kahlon is rather unclear. Bibi can't ignore Lieberman.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
V
So...might it prove impossible to form a coalition, and if so, what then?
Keep Rolling On
61 seats is still a majority, Any problems with that coalition will be as bad (or worse) if Lieberman is in it.
Of course, that just means in the next two weeks, Herzog will get his shot. If HE fails, then what? New elections?
How often do individual Knesset members go rogue/cross the floor/break ranks with the party line? Cause with a majority that slim it only takes a few to make things interesting.
Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Ayup. But thats gonna be the case no matter who forms a government, thanks to the seat spread.
....maybe it'd be better if there was another election, perhaps gaining a less fractitious spread.
A procrastination in of itself
Tight majorities suck though, you don't want to lose an important vote because one guy was sick. Or end up doing the whole wheeling in a dying MP to make him vote thing.
edited 20th Apr '15 1:42:59 PM by Silasw
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
I thought Knesset members going rogue was how Kadima was formed? Because you had Sharon's "security and peace" group against the more right-wing "hell no we won't go" faction of Likud, forcing Sharon's end to split?
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
edited 21st Apr '15 3:11:20 PM by Iaculus
What's precedent ever done for us?
(Avatar by Coffee)
It might actually force something to be done, one way or the other.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
Thus speaks yoneld:
The report was written before Pillar of Cloud and Protective Edge, so things must be a lot worse than what is described in the report.
Fear of a name increases fear of the thing itself.
FABRICATI DIEM, PVNC!
The Middle East Conflict Predates All Human Civilization. An interesting take on the conflict from a (much) broader historical perspective. Not sure if this article is strictly on-topic - especially if we stop to analyse it - but I thought I'd share it anyway because it's - well, as I said, an interesting take.
(Avatar by Coffee)
I'm not sure if you're joking or not. That's the Onion.
The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground
The law in the night
It is the Onion after all, but the Middle East has been ravaged by war for as long as there were civilizations on it.
Israel/Palestine, Syria, Libya, Yemen and Iraq for example are conflict hot spots happening right now.
Inter arma enim silent leges
Well, yeah, but that's true for basically everywhere.
The law in the night
South America: active wars in the territory - 0
North America: active wars in the territory - 0
Western Europe: active wars in the territory - 0
East Asia: active wars in the territory - 0
Eastern Europe: active wars in the territory - 1
Unless you count police actions like the war on crime/drugs as a proper war. Sure some foreign parties have their hand in the conflict within the Middle East, but the majority of the world hasn't seen a war in decades, the Middle East has a new war almost every single year.
Inter arma enim silent leges
United Earth
Yup. The European union is a very novel thing.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Colombia still has a communist insurgency going on, even if FARC isn't as strong as it used to be.
United Earth
Those asses wouldn't know Communism if it bit them in the arse.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Irrelevant to my point....
Sounds about right.
BTW, what's this I hear about Bibi having trouble with his coalition building....from Bennet no less.