Turkish Politics

Erdogan is clearly using Trump as a smokescreen...everyone is so focussed on the US, that nobody really pays that much attention to him.

Indeed.

So he really is like Smeagol.◊

GULEN GULEN GULEN!!!

Haven't found an English-speaking source yet, but Turkey's minister-president's going to the Ruhr area on Saturday to court Turkish citizens living there for the planned constituional reform - which didn't go well with people over here.

What could he gain from that? Are they supposed to lobby Germany on Erdogan's behalf or donate money?

A sizeable majority of german-turks hold dual citizenship and thus can vote in Turkey despite living in Germany.

I don't think it's actual dual citizenship - mostly because our legal system doesn't allow for that. I remember children born of Turkish citizens having a dual citenship until they mature. Then they have to decide.

But it's still people who primarily live in one country screwing over people in another one - Erdogan has a large support base among Turkish citizens in Germany.

edited 15th Feb '17 2:12:53 PM by DrunkenNordmann

German politicians protest against Turkish prime minister's speech in Germany

Turkish ‘No’ voices muffled in Erdoğan’s referendum

Erdoğan accuses Germany of 'Nazi practices' over blocked political rallies

Cross-posted from the German Politics thread.

edited 5th Mar '17 7:26:02 AM by DrunkenNordmann

The lack of self-awareness, the hypocrisy and the irony of that statement are overwhelming.

I wish the ban had come from the government itself and not from the local authorities. I am all for freedom of speech, but I don't think that we should allow rallies for the election of a foreign government in our country, especially not if said foreign government doesn't respect the freedom of speech and arrests our journalists and citizens.

I am so sick of Erdogan's BS.

I know that how Merkel is dealing with him might be smart in the long way, but I wish she'd be more vocal in her criticism.

It's her usual tactic of smiling and letting others do the dirty work for her, but sooner or later she will have to take a stand about one issue or another.

I wonder how much political capital other parties could get out of taking a more direct approach on Turkey than Merkel does.

Because people are pretty tired of Erdogan and his ilk. Have been tired for a long time, actually.

Anyone else remember when Erdogan came over and told Turkish Germans that they shouldn't integrate because integration is a crime against humanity?

edited 5th Mar '17 8:32:06 AM by DrunkenNordmann

A capital that can handle another flood of refugees, yeah? (Pages ~FF Shinra)

Wow. Calling Germans Nazis for refusing to let you campaign for authoritarian powers.

Does shit like that really fly in Turkey?

Isn't it dangerous to go directly against Turkey though? I'd thought dangling the EU carrot (and EU soft power in general) was one of the few checks on Erdoğan. (Trump certainly can't speak with any authority about human rights).
Cutting Europe out form Turkey's cultural milieu might be a bad thing in any case, since Erdoğan seems to be looking toward Saudi Arabia as the way of the future.

You rang?

Anyway, Germany will have to grin and bear it. Making a deal with Erdogan on the refugees gave him leverage that, if exercised, will bring more immediate problems. I said it then and I'll say it now, that making that deal was always going to be bad for Berlin one way or the other. I was told Germany can have its cake and eat it too. Now we see what is coming to roost.

So either you deal with mere unpleasantness of an authoritarian foreign power doing election rallies in your country (which I agree, should not be done) and basically take his shit, or you deal with a renewed refugee crisis. Regardless of how the war is going in Syria (and at the moment another wave is leaving from former Daesh territory), Turkey has at least million people just waiting to enter Europe, should they be allowed (and that number is just refugees alone, not including the economic migrants and so on, which would balloon out to several millions).

So which is it? Absorb more people or ignore Erdogan? Trying to do neither will eventually make him force the choice for you.

I feel the need to point out that the rallies were blocked because of safety concerns (ie too many people for the locations/organisators being less than honest about that) and we have laws regarding fire and panic safety.

If one of the speakers had stubbed his toe during an event Erdogan would have claimed the same. As we've seen, authoritarians have a casual regard to reality at the best of times.

Germany has the right for free speech that goes for everyone. Just because we don't like it is not a reason to violate that as much as it annoys you and it annoys me. But this is not a case where it matters how we feel but about the ideals we claim to uphold.

I for one would rather have a discussion about what they say than if they are allowed to say it

The Refugee deal isn't really the issue here. The purpose of this one was more to stop the "drive" behind the wave of refugees, so that the Balkan states were able to close the borders without a war breaking out in the region. I don't think that anyone ever expected it to be a permanent thing, though the German government did use the opportunity to push Turkey into allowing Refugees in their country to work. The whole thing is way more complicated than this. Currently a way bigger worry is Germany becoming a war zone because Turkish immigrants start fighting with each other.

It shouldn't be at issue, but Erdogan will make it so. To think otherwise would be to underestimate his pettiness.

Sure, but Erdogan would have found something to make an issue of anyway. Let's not forget that there are still German soldiers stationed in Turkey....German soldiers I would prefer to get pulled out sooner rather than later, I don't think that Turkey is really safe for them. But Turkey is the rallying point of the forces for Syria. That is the actual issue here.