Shin Megami Tensei IV *SPOILERS ABOUND*

I wonder if SJ Guy and If... Girl are Messiahs as well.

I'm not sure if they are either. I mean, the SJ Hero doesn't appear in the Diamond Realm DLC despite Strange Journey being a main series title. Did Atlus just not include him because they couldn't agree on giving him a name?

Probably due to there being only four party slots.

if... Girl is properly known as Tamaki, for the record.

Neither Tamaki/Nobu or Space Marine had deaths caused by YHVH because YHVH isn't around/sealed away.

If I may butt in the on the stuff Cybran and Pastry where going on about, I imagined one way to properly salvage the Massacre route would be to change the options given from Jerkass options to something akin more to a teacher, a teacher teaching the others to be more independent and to choose their own path. I would also change the name of the route to "Individuality" instead. Also I would make some of the characters have different leanings, some would lean more towards bonds (Isabeau, Nozomi) while others are more individualists (Gaston, Toki) and some that are fine either way (Asahi, Navarre, Halleujah), and one could be made to join from the opposite through proper dialogue options. In the individualist route, they would not join you out of friendship, but out of a common goal. And finally, I would have a proper boss fight against Danu where her faults are called out on in full and I would change the soundtrack played during the battle against your former allies (something you would have to do on both routes in my scenario if you failed to convince them) from the you-should-feel-bad-for-what-you-chose theme to a more proper boss theme.

Also, as a side note, one of the moments to me that really scream of Danu's controlling habits was during the path choice. Notice how she orders you to destroy the egg, no but's. Meanwhile, Dagda gives you the choice even though you are supposed to be his puppet. To me, that's quite telling.

edited 2nd Jan '17 4:35:21 AM by matteste

That... that's actually a very genius idea, matteste.

edited 2nd Jan '17 3:32:14 AM by CybranGeneralSturm

It doesn't seem to be a "you should feel bad" type of thing, it's more of a "you have to fight your former allies due to differing ideals" theme; Isabeau's battle theme during the last game's Law and Chaos routes. I actually like it, since you're all going neutral (rejecting Law and Chaos but going different ways with your neutrality), and you're both fighting against your former allies, so it's actually everybody's theme.

Dagda does say "Choose", but right after he tells you to join him in his new universe. He's obviously not actually okay with you choosing not to join him, because if you choose not to he immediately strips you of your Godslayer powers and attacks you while you're weakened. ("Think on what it means to betray me, as you stare into the cold abyss of death!")

A Danu boss fight with the way the game is now wouldn't really be much, seeing as Danu doesn't appear to weigh in on things nearly as much as Dagda does; and she doesn't really have any concrete goals other to protect the fairies and destroy the Egg once it appears, as opposed to Dagda, who's been planning from the start. If she did (maybe Nozomi joins you earlier, or maybe she's even hanging out at the Hunter Association to enlist people's help in fighting King Frost) then it could actually be a very interesting fight.

edited 2nd Jan '17 5:18:30 AM by PastryPerson

Now that I think about it, maybe Nozomi can be so focused on Bonds that she cannot be convinced so that you have to fight her should you go for Individuality while Gaston is the same situation but with Individuality instead so you fight him for choosing Bonds.

I would be open to getting an updated rerelease of SMT IV Apocalypse with a boss fight against Danu since the rerelease could change things up.

On unrelated news, I'm kinda bugged that Daisoujou and the Hell Biker were removed from the Fiend line-up. I mean, I really like the skeletal monk and his Meditation skill (admittedly, it is back as Soul Drain). At the same time though, David already has the 'status ailment' Fiend role filled.

I actually did consider the concept of unchangeable alignment but I wasn't sure if that would be a good idea.

Nobody fights snakes like Gaston, nobody pisses off their friends like Gaston, nobody is a more perfect example of individuality like Gaston, nobody hates dead people like Gaston.

Dagda giving Nanashi a "choice" really rings hollow once you remember that he basically holds Nanashi's life hostage. "Sure kid, you can choose not to use the Cosmic Egg. Just remember who holds your leash."

There should be a Super Apocalypse difficulty for Apocalypse. Every demon starts at level 666, climbing up to higher numbers as the game goes on (except for the Fiends who get to be level 71400), and;

Satan: "As Arbiter, I shall test your worthiness to proceed. A time may come where all your efforts thus far are reduced to naught...prove that you can endure such peril."

And then you get returned to the title screen because he deletes your save file

edited 2nd Jan '17 9:04:40 AM by PastryPerson

Hilarious, but not a very good idea in terms of game design. Would make for a pretty funny joke video, though.

Heh, yeah. That said, I'm about to face YHVH.

Also, this line would be hilarious out of context: "Satan says he accepts us. There's no reason to fight him anymore."

edited 2nd Jan '17 9:13:51 AM by PastryPerson

So... I guess nobody will say anything about Daisoujou since I already figured out that David is the Fiend that uses ailments. Daisoujou does also have light and dark spells.

Daisoujo isn't in this one, but his move Meditation, now called Soul Drain, is something all the Fiends have in addition to their unique move.

When YHVH tried to Mouth Of God Lakshmi to death but it missed, I literally Smirked IRL

:D

Never really liked status effect/ailment demons myself, honestly.

edited 2nd Jan '17 9:48:20 AM by PastryPerson

Don't underestimate ailments, especially in this game; they've received a significant buff from Vanilla.

Krishna and David's moves that both lower stats and inflict aliments are just... the best.

In Apocalypse ailments are now guaranteed to last at least one full turn, when they could wear off on the same turn in Vanilla. This would've helped so much with the Ancient of Days.

@Dragonfire: It doesn't because that was part of the bargain. He told him very clearly he will be his Godslayer and if he doesm't want that and a chance at life, then he can pass on without a second thought.

And to be honest you have a number of choices where Nanashi can sabotage himself. Choosing to die instead of taking the deal, trying to take the Powers up on their offer early on, trying to let Maitreya kill him, choosing Law and Chaos endings, and even the YHVH fight on Peace/Bonds where you can willingly screw over everyone else just so your death is peaceful.

You even have a choice in his boss fight to say your friends are meatshields, just to show how little Nanashi can care about them.

It's not like Nanashi isn't forced into picking choices he doesn't want at other times. Dagda's just the only one who directly forces it.

edited 2nd Jan '17 12:29:43 PM by OmegaRadiance

Wait... can you actually side with the Divine Powers/Polytheistic Alliance early on?

You can try by going to Tsukiji and meeting Ganesha/Berserker. Dagda immediately ends your life when you do while Asahi and Navarre don't understand why you're doing it.

So... Non-Standard Game Over?