Dragonball Fanfiction

Goku still knows enough about perversion to know that a perverted old Kai would want to touch big breasts. Which means he's looked at Chichi and Bulma's breasts enough to tell.

...Given how much Saiyans eat I'm surprised Chichi and Bulma would still have breasts. Like. The idea of what a half-Saiyan infant could do to a nipple is nightmarish.

Alternatively, their breasts would be really big after producing so much milk.

And.

I know you're both cis-dudes.

But in this fic where Goku is a cis-girl. Like.

Goku says he's 14 at the start of the manga, but later it turns out he's 12. So. I mean, are you going to acknowledge that Goku's had her period at some point, or?

Because, like. Scientifically there's some things about that you should research. And, like, talk to women who feel comfortable talking about it. Relating experiences. Look up women talking about it.

Like. If you do the stereotypical "raah women with periods are bitchy amirite" I will disown you both. I know it's what Toriyama would probably write, but I expect better from the two of you.

Why do women have periods. Is, like, a science thing I have.

I dunno whether Saiyans would menstruate the way humans do. Most mammals do either shed or reabsorb their uterine linings, but it's normally more closely related to estrus/heat. Which it sorta is with humans, but we do it every month.

Many monkeys and primates menstruate, like humans, and since Saiyans are like monkey-werewolves they probably do too? I mean. Presumably.

There is a thing where humans with more muscle and less body fat that are more active don't ovulate as much, and women that are active a lot in their teens don't have as much energy to ovulate as early and don't start getting their periods until later in life BUT the thing with that is that it's for humans, and I imagine the average Saiyan woman would be more muscley and have less body fat than the average human woman to begin with.

Then again, it seems like Saiyans are grown in pods? Or.

See, with Dragon Ball Minus. I can't tell whether some of Bardock and Gine's DNA was put in a petri dish and grown into the Goku we see, or whether Bardock and Gine had sex, Gine got pregnant, gave birth to Goku, and THEN Goku was put in the pod.

Generally speaking humans are weak when born. Not very self-sufficient. If we wanted to be more self-sufficient, we'd gestate longer. But we can't, because part of the reason labor starts and contractions begin is that at that point the mother's metabolism is literally incapable of supporting both herself and the fetus at that point. So the kid has to go.

Also the weight of the infant pressing on the cervix which sends signals to the brain. But that's more during labor than the start of it.

And. Jesus Fucking Christ Saiyan metabolisms.

Given Saiyans had a home planet before Planet Plant, and given that Saiyans still exist in the "good" Universe 6, I assume they weren't bio-engineered, so presumably they evolved naturally at some point in some way. Given they otherwise seem both mammalian and simian, I'm going to assume that the same rules generally apply. So Saiyans with uterii presumably give live birth and menstruate. Or at least used to at some point.

And. In Dragon Ball Minus, Goku doesn't have an umbilical cord.

Goku is generally coded as both "Eastern" and "Country", whereas Bulma is coded as more "Western" and "Civilized" (by which I mean she lives in a city. "Civilization" and "City" derive from the same root) so.

Okay, here's one thing I'm curious about with you guys and your "Goku is a ciswoman" AU and it's that. If Goku menstruates. which, if Saiyans are like monkeys, she probably does. Like, has she had her first period by the time the series starts? Or are you guys going to have it be a big thing later?

And. When a girl gets her first period is usually the time around when she's told anything about the birds and the bees and where babies come from. At least some of it, at least some of the basics.

Would she have had her first period when Gohan was alive, and would he have told her about it or tried to explain it to her?

Again, I have no idea how long Gohan's been dead when Goku meets Bulma.

And if Goku had her first period after Gohan died.

I mean, that'd be really horrific and traumatic, actually. Having your first period and not knowing what's happening is a scary thing, which is why it's generally best to have it explained to you beforehand.

I mean. That's all I can ask, I guess?

EDIT: I wasn't sure whether you'd see all this, it was an edit to my last post. And you edited your last post when you saw it.

EDIT:

But who delivers the mail!? Like. Did Goku have a mailman!?

edited 9th Feb '16 12:00:51 PM by unnoun

No and no. The way we have it set up now is that Saiyans start comparatively late in order to facilitate their growth as warriors (you really don't want that kind of thing slowing down your early years of training which is likely to get you killed later on). Goku's first period won't be until she's training with God and that's when she'll get The Talk. We won't actually show it, however, because this is an action-adventure story with an emphasis on action. At best, it'll receive a passing mention at a latter point but it won't be any time soon.

Possibly. However, now that I think about it, a much simpler answer is that Gohan met with Roshi sometime after the incident (which I can't recall if Goku remembers) but early enough that Goku wouldn't likely remember meeting Roshi.

edited 9th Feb '16 12:02:58 PM by Zelenal

So, one of the main criticisms I got for the pilot chapter was that I showed too many of the initial onscreen events exactly the same as canon.

That's a legitimate problem, and an understandable one.

Therefore, since Nanoha's "battle" with the first Jewel Seed goes pretty much the same way it did in the second episode of the show, I wonder if it'd be for the best to simply cut to immediately afterward, where Bulma shows up to see the end of the battle and its aftermath, and then suddenly conversation ensues!

...That works really well actually. Incredibly well.

I think Goku learned a lot of things from God.

Not marriage, but.

...I mean, funny thing about the way a lot of cultures in our world raise our kids? We teach kids about marriage and what marriage is before we teach them about sex.

I could totally buy God making that sort of assumption about what Goku already knows. It'd be funny.

I mean, either way, whenever Goku starts menstruating. I mean, even if it's not that bad, if she doesn't bleed as much or get as intense cramps, which can vary among human women by a lot, it's still a weird thing to just suddenly have happen to you without warning. And with Kami and Popo, Goku would want to know if they could "fix" her or heal her internal bleeding or whatever.

Which.

Getting "the talk" from a blackface genie and a thousand-year-old green asexually reproducing slug alien.

...I kinda want you guys to write that because it'd be funny.

Like.

Imagine Mr. Popo going to the store to buy menstrual pads and tampons.

Or it was before Goku hit his head.

edited 9th Feb '16 12:10:39 PM by unnoun

Do what we did for "Tales of the Monkey Queen" and summarize events that are exactly the same as in canon with a paragraph or two.

Oh, it probably would be but it'd ruin the pacing of the story.

It can't be because then Roshi wouldn't know about. I think. If Gohan told Goku about it then Goku might have told Roshi.

edited 9th Feb '16 12:11:03 PM by Zelenal

Ruining the pacing of the story is just sort of what Dragon Ball does, though.

Like. Dragon Ball's pacing is and has always been a hot mess.

Also, Roshi describes Goku hitting his head as something he heard Gohan mention.

And, again, he doesn't seem to recognize Goku on sight when they meet in the manga. Which is weird if he saw Goku when he was younger, because Goku's hair hasn't changed. Goku's hair not changing is specifically mentioned to be an aspect of his biology.

edited 9th Feb '16 12:13:17 PM by unnoun

Perhaps but we're trying to make things better. That's one of the reason we had Gero appear during the Red Ribbon Army Saga or why we referenced Urenai Baba and the Kikouhou and Piccolo Daimaou early. That's why we expounded upon Tenshinhan's backstory and gave Tao a backstory and had Tao reference his brother and his hatred of the Turtle School. It's why we do a lot of things, really.

That's probably good.

Although.

One of the weird things about the pacing I'd say is how suddenly and at times jarringly it transitions from arc to arc.

Like, whole years of time are just skipped over.

Like.

Suddenly after 3 years after the first Tournament and the Red Ribbon Army and Baba there's another tournament. Not really any look at that time period. Like, maybe the Red Ribbon Army and Baba stuff took about a year, but. Still two years unaccounted for.

Suddenly it's been three more years after Daimao and Goku's really tall and grown up and that one girl from like the second volume that Toriyama himself hated is back and she's grown up too.

Four or five years later and suddenly Goku has a kid.

Frieza's defeated and suddenly it's been a year and Goku's back from space and there's someone from the future. Like. I know I'm alone in this, but one thing I like Toei and the anime and the fucking Garlic Jr. Saga for is that it was at least an attempt to fill this weird gap with something. And it wasn't even that bad an attempt. Could have been worse, it's Toei.

Three years later after the future kid and Bulma's left Yamcha like future kid said and been knocked up by Vegeta also like future kid said. And so many fanfics have been written in this gap it isn't funny. I know Toriyama isn't good at romance. And if you guys aren't either, well, knowing your limitations is good. So I can understand why he wouldn't write it, but it's also a jarring thing to skip over.

After Cell. Like. Seven. Fucking. Years. Krillin and Eighteen have a three-year-old and live at Kame House. Like. It's probably because I'm slightly more of a Krillin/Eighteen shipper than I am a Vegeta/Bulma shipper but. Like.

I know Eighteen says "see you later" when she leaves the lookout, but. Like. When? How? Where? Why?

...Why would any woman willingly live at Kame House to raise a family? For any amount of time? Or any man, for that matter? Kame House is not a place you settle down and raise kids. You would lose them and they would die because they would be buried alive in porn.

I mean. If Marron got a cut or scratch tetanus would be the least of the infections she'd have to worry about. Oolong lived in Kame House at one point.

...Anyway. Seven year gap. Goten's a thing suddenly? Vegeta and Bulma are seemingly married or at least cohabiting.

Gohan starts going to high school.

Satan City's apparently been built or renamed after Cell. I want to say I remember someone saying that it was built? A city is a fairly big thing to build.

And then with Super. Suddenly it's five years (or maybe six months? I can't tell) and Krillin's a cop now.

Five more years after Super/ten years after the end of the manga and Gohan and Videl have a kid? And Bulma and Vegeta have another kid?

Like, these skips make sense, to an extent, because those aren't the stories the series is telling about, but they're also fairly significant things to just gloss over the way the series does.

edited 9th Feb '16 12:34:14 PM by unnoun

I always thought it was renamed, for what that's worth.

Satan City was renamed. It was originally Orange Star City.

...I sorta don't want to go back to this, but.

First of all. Goddamn that's a terrible joke. Her name is literally Boobs and she's flat chested? That's. Goddamn. I know Toriyama doesn't like her but that's just mean.

Second. I mean. Chichi's been pregnant twice. And she may be a princess, but she's also a traditionalist "family-oriented" woman, she's about as "Country" and "Eastern" as Goku, and she doesn't have any servants which would include wet nurses. They don't live near a city, so. So I imagine that they probably don't use baby formula. Chichi probably breastfed both kids. Like. Odds are.

I dunno about Bulma? She's very busy and she works a lot. But she does sorta work at home, given her office is also her house. I think? I think the Capsule Corp. building is both for the company and the family's living quarters.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure we see Bulma smoking in the Android Saga. On the other other hand, it was the 80s, and I'm not sure health risks between smoking and pregnancy/breastfeeding or second-hand smoke were documented yet. I'm also not sure we're meant to think of Bulma as a particularly conscientious or good mom at that point? She brought Trunks to see the Androids and to the Lookout.

Also, if she did smoke, Trunks would probably get a Zenkai from it.

So whether Bulma breastfed. I dunno.

But as for Chichi. I mean, many women's breasts shrink after the kid is weaned. They tend to sag a little. But one way to mitigate that is exercise. And Chichi trained Goten. So she probably has a little bit of muscle to help with that.

edited 9th Feb '16 12:51:26 PM by unnoun

So I guess as the guy who's responsible in part for this tumultuous discussion, I'll defend my Lion King reference. It's something I'd never do in a serious work, but like unnoun said, it's fan fiction. I'm not planning to publish any of this and I'm not worrying about getting plagiarized. I just thought it would be a fun little reference and it still works in the narrative of the story, especially when you compare context to context.

Tenshinhan, just like Kovu, has been conditioned and indoctrinated to be a killer with one specific end goal. Granted, Tenshinhan's specific goal and desire for revenge came later than the specific indoctrination to be okay with murder. Similarly, Shen is similar to Zira in that his endgoal, the sum total ambition of his existence, is fueled by jealousy, rage, revenge and spite. He lives to make the Roshi miserable. He wants revenge for his brother, who just so happens to have been murdered by a turtle student, and doesn't that all work out perfectly?

I didn't think it would be too terribly jarring, especially since I thought it fit the story I was telling and the characters I'd..... "created", I guess? Most readers who commented on it saw it as I intended, simply as a fun little reference that didn't stick out. Frankly, I never felt like I was outed when someone said "Hey, I remember those lines from Lion King 2!", I just kind of smiled and appreciated that people got my reference.

Chichi wasn't flatchested even when she was a child

I'm not sure "fanfiction" is quite a good enough reason to be unoriginal. Like. What you're saying makes sense, but.

I guess I prefer references that use existing concepts in new ways than ones which involve reusing other scenes.

Like, when Toriyama does a reference in his work, when it's one of the good ones, when it's funny. That's how it works. It's effective.

Toriyama has at times been pretty blatant when he's parodied things, but I can't think of a lot of instances of straight-up reusing or recreating some other scene.

...I hate you right now.

And whoever was the animator for that.

edited 9th Feb '16 1:03:30 PM by unnoun

It wasn't the animator's fault. She had breasts in the manga too◊

...Dammit Toriyama.

Like.

I keep forgetting that she wore that outfit at first.

EDIT: I sorta wish I hadn't brought it up.

Like.

I stand by it being incredibly mean for Goku to say she's flat-chested when her name is literally Boobs. Like. That's the worst joke Toriyama has made.

edited 9th Feb '16 1:21:11 PM by unnoun

I like talking about Tales of the Monkey Queen, so I was wondering, have there been any Jaco references that I missed?

I really liked the neat little additions the Jaco manga added to the series. I like Tights.

I like Bulma and Jaco's interactions in ROF and Super.

Even if it's a little weird that Bulma already knew an alien.

And that she fixed a spaceship when she was three.

edited 10th Feb '16 10:47:08 AM by unnoun

There haven't been any Jaco references, but there might be once we get to Z and aliens become a thing.

But going off of Jaco they're already a thing.

Like, from the way Bulma interacts with him in ROF and Super, it seems like he's been coming and going sometimes offscreen. Which, I mean, is blatantly a retcon, but an interesting one.

And Piccolo being an alien is kinda hinted when he and Kami speak Namekian.

But.

I just can't get over Bulma fixing a spaceship at the age of three. It haunts me. I love it.

Like, Dr. Slump had aliens.

edited 10th Feb '16 10:59:55 AM by unnoun

I wonder if they can just say Bulma mentioned knowing Jaco offscreen, but maybe never brought it up until after the Saiyan Saga (or during) because it was never really relevant to what was going on.

I mean, there was one point where they needed a spaceship to go to Namek.

Her knowing a space alien the entire time is a little weird.

On the other hand, it seems like Jaco just sorta shows up to visit and they can't reliably contact him.

And. By the time Jaco shows up in Revival of F it seems like she's put two and two together and figured out who Jaco had originally wanted to kill?

Maybe during the Saiyan Saga it would have been a little awkward.

edited 10th Feb '16 1:04:27 PM by unnoun

Anyway, the reason I mention Jaco specifically in the context of Tales of the Monkey Queen is that. The way she interacts with him in Revival of F makes me think that she's interacted with Jaco a few times, enough to be somewhat familiar with him, but not since the Saiyan Saga. Not since she found out about Goku's heritage. Which would be sometime during the Dragon Ball era. And the four year gap between Piccolo and Raditz.

At least, that's the way I read their dynamic. Maybe I'm wrong.

Funny thing is that, like. Goku doesn't see Bulma that much. There's years where Goku is training for the next tournament.

Maybe Jaco showed up while Goku was with Roshi, and somehow Goku's monkey tail didn't come up in conversation?

Maybe after Baba and the Red Ribbon arc but before the tournament and Tien and Daimao?

Maybe while Goku's with God?

I think the idea of Jaco just sort of coming and going throughout the Dragon Ball era is hilarious.

I mean.

Even better idea, maybe Jaco comes to visit at one point around when Goku goes to see Bulma at Capsule Corp. and they just missed each other?

The entire joke of Jaco as a character is that he is extremely unlucky and extremely bad at his job.

He's been close to the best lead he could hope for to get the Saiyan he's looking for, during the time period when that Saiyan is the most active on Earth, while said Saiyan is young enough and weak enough for him to kill, and the entire time it never comes up.

My favorite thing about Revival of F and Super so far is the way they make Jaco even more of a "Shaggy Dog" Story. And, given Zelenal and Sharknado's fic frequently does other neat exploratory stuff with the details of the "canon" in this time period. It's something that I just realized I noticed by its absence.

It's not even like Dr. Slump where you can excuse its absence either. Like, Nevermind that Arale explicitly exists in Dragon Ball.

The central joke the Jaco manga and one of the biggest aspects of ROF is Jaco's supreme failure at finding Goku in the Dragon Ball era.

Which on the one hand ultimately saved the world, but also. Like, would Frieza have given a fuck about Earth?

Which even ties into the latest thing with Super. Universe 7 is the "bad" universe, where the space cops are Jaco.

Universe 6's Space Cops are actually strong, competent, compassionate, merciful Saiyans.

edited 10th Feb '16 1:28:38 PM by unnoun

Bulma never mentioning Jaco isn't anywhere as bad as her never even mentioning she had a sister.

She's probably embarassed because sci-fi writer. Writing isn't a STEM field, and therefore lame.

Bulma logic.

To be fair, I'm fairly sure Bulma forgets she has a mother at times.

I do remember her bringing baby Trunks in a flying car into a battle.

Bulma is about as fit to have a family as Vegeta is.