Superman General

Oh, absolutely. That'd be the tits.

Anybody from that list—or who I missed—that you'd especially like to see?

Something else I wouldn't mind is a more serialized, less episodic cartoon. TAS could certainly do story arcs, but spent most of its time on one-or-two episode storylines.

Also this may sound strange, but something I wouldn't want to see, is Darkseid or any of the other Fourth Worlders. I think Superman's rogues gallery is big enough for Darkseid to remain a JLA threat. Besides, TAS covered that ground pretty thoroughly. Want an intergalactic tyrant? Use Mongul I or somebody.

edited 14th May '15 9:28:22 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Superboy would be awesome. Specifically Leather Jacket, Macklemore hair Superboy. Way, way better than Jeans and T-Shirt captain grump pants.

I found him a little overly abrasive when he first appeared, but once they toned that down, I really, really liked that kid. I'd love to see them really explore his relationships with Superman, Supergirl, Jonathan and Martha, and the rest of the extended Kent/El family. And Luthor. Can't forget his relationship with his other "dad". It's all been done in the comics, of course, but never in cartoon form.

Something I'd actually really love to see? A scene where Superman and Luthor, without violence, discuss their "son", his progress, and who he is turning out to be.

edited 14th May '15 9:30:57 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Lex: The boy really should take after me.

Superman: Oh? Do tell.

Lex: Well, one of us is the smartest man in the world, and a billionaire industrialist. The other is an alien freak who puts on a circus strongman uniform and runs around like a fool for the common rabble.

Superman: One of us had two excellent fathers who put his life and wellbeing ahead of everything else. What was your father like, Lex?

Lex:....This conversation is over.

Eh..I'd prefer to see a show more focused on Superman himself. It happened frequently throughout the 90's that Superman comics, for instance, got hung up on his supporting cast; I read Superman comics for Superman, not to read about Jimmy Olsen getting evicted or the drug problems of Perry White's son.

Superman, though, is apparently difficult to do, else I imagine we would have seen another Superman toon by now.

edited 14th May '15 9:45:13 PM by Robbery

This talk of cartoon characters and plot lines has me mulling over an idea for a Superman/Green Lantern crossover wherein Mongul I and Mongal bust Mongul II out of an Oan prison and make tracks for Earth, prompting Superman to ally with the Corps to try and stop them before they get there.

Ha! The show definitely has to have a Lionel flashback at some point. Hell, better yet, have Lionel be alive and in prison so he can make a modern appearance.

Personally I think fleshing out the supporting cast is part of writing Superman. These are his friends, colleagues, and in the case of Supergirl, Superboy, and Jonathan and Martha (and eventually Lois), his family. Getting to know the people close to him—and how he interacts with them—is part of getting to know him.

As for how Superman is hard, I don't see it. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I expect the people at DC do think he's hard to do. I just don't agree with them.

edited 14th May '15 9:56:27 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

Here's the thing: Superman is an icon living in an iconic setting. The current people running DC were/are huge Image Comics fans. A Rob Leifeld comic fails miserably? DC gives him 3 more books.

If you want to fuck around with Superman's image, that's what Elseworlds is for (see Bearded Idiot). John Bryne had no issues for finding new Superman stories.

I'd rather Elliot S. Maggin be the shepard for all things Superman than Dan fucking Didio and Bob Harras.

edited 17th May '15 5:21:47 PM by AnotherGuy

Icons are clichés. I want my characters to feel like real people, that I can love and respect, that I can relate to. I want my fictional worlds to feel like more than a stage to set theatrics on; I want them to feel alive and immersive.

To keep Superman an icon is to kill him. Superman is, first and foremost, a man.

edited 18th May '15 2:04:45 PM by TheHandle

he's been a man in just about every superman story, just very well-adjusted and at peace with himself. doesn't mean he doesn't fail or doesn't have problems.

doesn't stop him from being an icon too.

edited 18th May '15 2:09:44 PM by wehrmacht

@Ambar what power set would you like Conner to have? I liked the TK from the New 52.

In a cartoon adaptation? I think his regular Post-Crisis powerset is fine. If TK refers to telekinesis, he had that in the Post-Crisis timeline as well—in fact it's what he's using to enhance or fake most of his powers.

So a few random questions:

1) After all this time, I'm still unclear about the nature of Superman's relation to magic.

As I understand it, he's not weak to it, he's just not invulnerable towards it. A spell that summons ice that can freeze anything will affect him the same way it would someone without his invincibility, and a sword enchanted to cut anything will cut him just like it would Batman.

So if a spell had a specific component (i.e., if the sword can cut anything up to steel, but nothing strong than steel or something like that) I'd assume it wouldn't cut him because despite his nickname, he's much tougher than that.

2) For those of you who were fans of the old DCAU, while I watched Superman The Animated Series at the time, I understand that Kal didn't have all the powers of his comic counterpart. I hear he lacked Freeze breath (something I never noticed) and wanted to see if anyone knew for sure if this was true, and if there were any other powers he didn't have.

That's about it.

1) I think that's mostly right (not sure about the sword thing)

2) Yeah he didn't have freeze breath though his breath was strong enough to be a gust of wind. He couldn't breathe in space either.

Yeah, I thought so.

Like I said, I watched the whole series, but never caught the lack of Freeze breath, and as for the magic thing, that's an important little tidbit.

I'm still trying to figure out how what that means for the magic lightning, but I assume that one doesn't kill him because, while powerful, and magical by nature, it's meant to transform, not be used as a weapon, hence, it just hurts like hell (where it would normally flat out kill anyone else).

I always took it that Billy wasn't trying to kill him.

That too.

I mean, since the bolt has been portrayed in different ways (sometimes, they can use it in public, and no-one else will notice; I remember seeing one time when he said it in front of a bunch of crooks, and they just thought he disappeared and was replaced by Cap, and of course, there have been the times when it sends people nearby flying, if not outright shocking them) so I've always assumed all the Marvels have some level of control over it's level of power as well.

Superman doesn't actually lack his invulnerability vis-a-vis magical attacks. He's still been shown surviving spells that would kill a normal person. Even Pre-Crisis when the magic weakness was a bigger deal, he could still get up from things that a normal person wouldn't. Example given, in the original JLA/CSA battle, Power Ring clocked Superman in the head with a magically-created mace. That would obviously kill someone normal, while Superman just reacted as though he'd been punched in the face (keep in mind that this is Silver Age Superman who normally didn't react to attacks at all).

What does effect Superman the same as anybody else are enchantments. When the JLA got pulled into a storybook by the Queen of Fables, he got pulled in with them. When Circe turned every man in town into an animal, he got transformed to. Etc.

So physical attacks technically won't effect him if they aren't powerful enough to harm him, magic or not.

But then again, my sword enchanted to cut anything in existence theory is still valid I suppose.

This has been educational. I love TV Tropes.

Said sword would definitely cut him. How deeply it would cut him, etc, is sort of up to the writer. Otherwise, you got it.

Yes, a magical blade could hurt, or even kill, Superman. Remember in Kingdom Come, where he cut himself on Wonder Woman's magic sword (which was writer Mark Waid's way of reminding people Superman was vulnerable to magic)?

Interestingly, in the novelization by Elliot S.Maggin, it's stated that, after his fight with Captain Marvel, Superman "understood" magic" and was thereafter invulnerable to it.

Yeah, I'm not sure about that. Just understanding magic shouldn't let him be invulnerable to it.

We also have to remember that, as powerful as Superman is, if you can find something that hits him hard enough, you can still fuck him up, as Doomsday proved oh so long ago.

True, finding something that strong is hard, but not impossible. Plus, a sword is made to kill people, so if you have a sword that can cut Superman, you don't need much else, cause if you stab him, he'll bleed to death like everyone else.

edited 22nd May '15 10:10:28 AM by HandsomeRob

Actually the sword would need to be swung by somebody as strong and as fast as Superman, at the least. And would need to negate his pesky Healing Factor. Your overall point stands though. Superman is not as hard to kill as some people, and especially his "He's so OP" detractors like to make out.

I thought you were going to say "such as Lobo."

I would have said 'Wolverine', but different strokes for different folks.