Bravely Default Series

Does anyone else have trouble physically button mashing fast enough to get the False Ending? I had to get my brother to do it for me. I don't know why they made seed the determining factor rather than the number of presses.

Wait, there's a time limit?

Eh, I've never had a problem with it. Then again, I've also played and beaten Sonic Rush at least twice, so I'm used to obnoxious button-mashing sequences.

It takes annoyingly long, that's for sure. Anyway, branching timelines seems to be the most logical explanation.

Nanomachines, son.

So I did some digging and it turns out, Sword Magic not only changes your attack's element, but adds a magical attack on top of it, sort of like an inverse Phantom Weapon. That's why on a melee-focused character there's not much difference between SM Fire and SM Firaga, meaning that on such a character the status ones are most useful, assuming you're not trying to hit an elemental weakness. Also, they don't change the element of attacks that already have one, so Dark Bane will always be Dark element no matter what. So in the end, Sword Magic is best for hybrid characters — I imagine it makes for a particularly effective mid-game setup with Red Magic, for true Jack of All Stats potential. As the NG+ lets you choose what you keep (which is awesome), I think I'll do another run carrying over only the jobs unlocked (and not their levels), and try out some new strategies.

Sword Magic is for Drain Sword and invincibility.

It's also useful to sap a foe's magic points.

Philistines.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I do enjoy a few rounds with sword magic (maybe because I did train everyone at least a little in magic, I always got effectiveness out of it). But it's not my favorite way to beat a foe into submission. I honestly have a bit of a weakness for hunter, which was only exacerbated when it was the key to me beating the fake final boss in Chapter 5.

You mean ranger? It's probably the least useful class, in my opinion. Save perhaps Merchant if you don't invest a ton of money and effort in farming gold.

Ranger's good in the mid-game just because Bows are ridiculous stat-sticks, but they fall off in the late game since they don't have a "Manslayer" ability and most bosses are human.

You mean they have high damage? Well, yeah, but you can't use them with Two-handed, so it balances out. Same with knuckles.

They're essentially two-handed by default, so it saves a skill slot to do the same amount of damage.

Yeah. They're two-handed and double damage by default, as are fists.

Of course, Fist Lore ultimately wins out for pure power when compared to Bow Lore, if only for the fact that it can be used alongside Natural Talent.

I wish the cap wasn't set so low, or rather that damage and HP were adjusted so it was harder to reach. As it is, a lot of abilities and strategies become pointless in mid-to-late game.

Yeah. A general cap of 99999 would've made a lot of stuff harder to obsolete.

Rage would probably still reign supreme, but by a smaller margin.

Well, let's see. Assuming a BP is not a concern (BP battery setup), Rage does 6.25 times a single attack's damage twice a turn. This assumes lost HP is not a concern, no elemental resistances to Dark and all the Dark Banes hit the same target. On the other hand, the simple Free Lunch/Amped Strike does 4 times attack damage three times, with four Braves. However, Free Lunch lasts for two turns, meaning that over that time (and again, assuming maximum Brave use and some form of BP recovery), Rage does 25 times attack damage, while Amped Strike will do 28. There are support abilities, Adversity and equipment to consider, but on equal conditions Amped Strike wins.

What does that look like if we factor in the enemy having a weakness to Dark, rather than nonresistance?

It multiplies the whole damage by 1.5, but as long as we're doing that we can consider other factors. As support abilities go, the Rage/Drain combo benefits from several support abilities: Drain Attack Up (1.5), Gloom (1.25), and Sword Magic Amp (1.25). I'm not considering the Lore abilities or Natural Talent since those can be applied to both setups. Additionally, Gloom gives a weak Dark Amp, but with Fairy's Aid you can get a strong one (1.5). So, to our 25 over two turns we could multiply by 1.5x1.5x1.25x1.5 with all the boosts above, giving us a total of 105.46875, or 26.3671875 times attack damage per Rage. Also bear in mind that Adversity means that after the second Rage, you'd get another 1.5 bonus. Note that I'm assuming that the damage formula works linearly, meaning that x% increase in attack power equals x% increase in damage, but everything points towards this being true.

Now, some of these multipliers are equally as valid for the other setup, given that with a Blood Sword you can replicate Drain (for that DAU and SMA bonus), or you can use an elemental weapon for the other part, but not both at once. Also bear in mind that without BP Drink, the most BP one character can restore (albeit to the whole party) is 4 plus the turn's base (or two if using Hasten World). So while you could conceivably use Templar as primary, Dark Knight as secondary and a Blood Sword to fire three Rages per turn, you couldn't do that every turn. So, the Dark Knight turns out to be the best attacker in the game, after all, but other setups including the Pirate/Swordmaster still have merits to consider.

(That was more fun than it should have been)

edited 30th Sep '14 3:19:38 PM by Ninety

All my experiences with the game point to this being false, but I think you're also confusing damage multipliers with attack power multipliers. It's pretty clear to me that Defense is subtracted from Attack extremely early in the formula and at fairly low numbers, and then multiplied by large numbers (hit count being the most prominent one). This leads to small attack power differences causing huge damage differences, moreso at lower attack values, and makes Defense piercing one of the most powerful abilities in the game.

edited 30th Sep '14 3:38:38 PM by Clarste

Hm, you may be right. If so, I'm pretty sure that elemental damage weakness or resistance is a direct damage modifier, but I can't speak for the others (I'm betting they're power modifiers, though). However, hit count doesn't affect attack-based abilities, the damage is calculated assuming all attacks hit. Which is one of the things I'd change, so as to make Evasion play a larger role in defense (as well as perhaps make these attacks hit once per weapon, so as to make Dual Wield viable over Two-Handed in more than one specific setup).

Hit count affects the power of moves, although you're right that it assumes they all hit. What I mean is that if the character has enough speed to hit 8 times or whatever, an Attack-based ability will do a single hit that does 8 times base damage (and then times 1.5 or whatever depending on the ability). Base damage is just an incredibly small number that never comes up after the very beginning of the game. The game then applies your accuracy to that one mega-hit, instead of each mini-hit individually like it does for normal attacks.

And, well, I haven't tested this but I'm pretty sure that special attacks with dual-wielding do apply both weapons, but it just adds them all into one mega-hit. This has the two-fold problem of multiplying Defense penalties and obviously hitting the damage cap. I had a ninja with Ranger skills in the mid-game and they weren't terrible, relative to auto-attacking. The Ninja was terrible though, because the game mechanics heavily discourage multi-hit abilities until it reaches the damage cap.

edited 30th Sep '14 3:53:52 PM by Clarste

Yes, exactly. However, I read on a guide (I haven't tested this myself) that Quick and other abilities that boost hit count don't boost attack ability damage, that is, attack abilities only consider base hit count (as a tradeoff for considering they all hit, I suppose). I wish they'd get rid of that. And yeah, the attack from both weapons is added for attack abilities, but if you think about it that will always be equal to or less than just using the stronger weapon with Two-Handed. So, what I meant is that it would be cool if attack abilities were actually executed once for each weapon, which would help Dual Wield's viability in the late game as a means of bypassing the damage cap. Plus, Dual Wield takes two support slots as opposed to Two-Handed's one, so it would be a pretty fair tradeoff.

So, advice for the six dragons (Karkat was asking for it on the other thread). The important thing to remember is that all of their attacks are physical, therefore, using abilities that reduce or eliminate physical damage are a must. If you've fought the Templar, the very best one for this purpose is its Rampart, which gives one free physical damage block to your whole party. The hit still registers, though, so it goes great with the Swordmaster's Nothing Ventured or Know Your Enemy, or The Worm Turns if you're feeling ballsy. If you have a Spiritmaster, Fairy Ward will keep you safe from the status ailments the dragons' Breath attacks inflict, which is essential. The strategy you'll hear most often, though, is to use the Ninja's Utsusemi, which gives you a free dodge. No one of the dragons' attacks can hurt you with Utsusemi up, so it's very useful to have. Turn Tables is also a must, for that sweet free BP, Transience and Comback Kid are similarly useful but not essential. Since the Ninja learns Utsusemi as a starter ability, if you really wanna cheese it you can set all four to Ninja, since the dragons will never Brave and attack twice unless you have Hasten World up, but that's boring. Personally, I had one Ninja/Red Mage one BP ahead of everyone keeping the party healed and status-free, one Templar keeping up Rampart, one Performer giving the Templar the BP it needed, and one attacker. Once you get it down, it gets pretty easy, since all of the dragons use the same strategy — without ever levelling up, setting up this strategy turned from not being able to kill a single dragon to curbstomping them all.

If that's not your thing, just avoiding physical damage in general will pull you through. Remember, though, that the Elemental Eye attacks override any elemental resistance you might have, so don't rely on those. Some of the dragon's status effects are more deadly than others', particularly the earth and water ones (which paralyze and stop you, respectively), so you might want to equip your healer with the relevant status immunity accessory. Some status of your own are also good, I seem to recall all dragons are vulnerable to Sleep and Poison, so if you have an Arcanist/Black Mage, you can go nuts with Sleep and Poison/Exterminate for huge damage (except against Jabberwock, the dark one). Oh, and don't forget to target their elemental and family weaknesses. Good luck!

edited 30th Sep '14 5:48:56 PM by Ninety