Filum Romanum - A Thread for the Catholic Church

Just a gentle reminder that we should probably stay on topic. I would hate for this thread to get shut down; I do so enjoy the discussion.

Ditto.

Pope kicks moneylenders out of temple.

Okay, not quite, but I couldn't resist. As part of Pope Francis's humility and poverty drive (or possibly due to budgetary pressures), he has cancelled the €25,000 bonuses recieved by the four Cardinals who run the Institute for Works of Religion (IOR), more commonly known as the Vatican Bank. The IOR has been under scrutiny in recent years for its lack of transparency (like a Swiss bank, only more like a Swiss bank), the potential acceptance of non-religious account holders, suspected money laundering, and the 1982 collapse of the Banco Ambrosiano, in which the IOR held a stake, and over which it's director, US Archbishop Paul Marckinckus, was indicted. The head of the Banco Ambrosiano was found hanged under Blackfriars Bridge in London, in what was believed to be a Mafia killing. Pope Benedict asked for an audit by Moneyval, a European bank watchdog, which found some effective reform, but also serious concerns about transparency.

So, a shady bunch, which successive popes have tried and failed to reform. Some, such as Cardinal John Onaiyekan, have even questioned whether the Vatican needs a bank at all. Could this be the beginnings of serious reform? Or the beginnings of the end of the IOR entirely?

The Vatican Bank also assisted Michael Corleone legitimize his crime family business in Godfather Part III.

edited 23rd Apr '13 4:38:54 AM by Achaemenid

Double Post:

"Slave labor" in Bangladesh "goes against God", says Pope.

"A headline that really struck me on the day of the tragedy in Bangladesh was 'Living on 38 euros a month'. That is what the people who died were being paid. This is called slave labour," the pope was quoted as saying at a private mass.

"Today in the world this slavery is being committed against something beautiful that God has given us — the capacity to create, to work, to have dignity. How many brothers and sisters find themselves in this situation!" he said.

"Not paying fairly, not giving a job because you are only looking at balance sheets, only looking at how to make a profit. That goes against God!" he was quoted as saying.

"There are many people who want to work but cannot. When a society is organised in a way that not everyone is given the chance to work, that society is not just," he said.

Wohoo! Good for him.

Dayum. That's downright socialist rhetoric.

applause

If this Pope does something in order to fulfill his statements up until now, we might see a fine Pope (and one worthy of respect from all/many kinds of people).

edited 1st May '13 11:51:59 AM by Quag15

I know - isn't it wonderful

edited 1st May '13 11:53:34 AM by Achaemenid

It is! It's nice to see some mainstream figures making socialist rhetoric. I mean, he practically said "wage slavery" and he did that on May Day. I'm liking Pope Francis more and more (though I still object to the hierarchy of the Catholic Church).

You'd object to the hierarchy of a bread basket.

It's good news, he should have an ally in the Church of England, since they've been speaking out about similar issues recently. I don't think this is actually a change on the Church's views, it's just a change of focus. Which is wonderful, someone finally got the memo that people are more receptive to "slavery is wrong" than "homosexuals will burn in hell".

Well, from reasonable capitalistic view such low pay is dumb too. Workers work more efficiently if they are paid more, increasing the employers profit in the long run.

While that's true, what makes that speech socialist rhetoric is the comparison to slavery. Wage slavery is a big concept in the socialist critique of capitalism.

...I don't understand what you're trying to say with that...

edited 1st May '13 1:31:15 PM by deathpigeon

I think he means that you'd object to a hierarchy, anywhere, any time and in anything — even in nature, no doubt.

edited 1st May '13 1:47:04 PM by Greenmantle

I was making a joke about how you object to all hierarchy, be it that of the Catholic Church or a hierarchical bread basket. It appears to have failed...

In fairness to the church, othering is a pretty solid tactic a lot of the time, the Catholic Church can gain a lot of followers by hatting on gays, but someone appears to have realised that while active gay hating is a good short term strategy, it's a bad long term one. I'd like to think that morality also came into the decision-making process somewhere, but I'm an optimist like that.

Oh, I see. *Thought you were comparing the Catholic Church to a breadbasket. Feels stupid, now.*

So he basically took the one good thing about Benedict and took it further.

Good on him. Let's see where he goes with it.

Pope Francis says that Jesus' redemption is for everyone, not just Catholics. Everyone who does good and seeks to do good will be given a place in Heaven, and that includes atheists.

Has any previous Pope ever said something like that?

My response.◊

This would seem apropos...

Wow... That's a pretty awesome thing to say.

Now this I like, hell, I don't think it was that long ago that I was expressing a similar sentiment when arguing with Starship (I believe over church attendance).

.....why do you make it so hard to dislike you I was comfortable with not liking Benedict.

And now you go and be like that!

You know what? You're

Also, remotely amusing how the fundies go crazy in the comments.

edited 24th May '13 4:12:08 AM by 3of4

I'm still cynical about him, for reasons of "a fraud who says nice things is still a fraud". My distaste for the office he holds and organisation he heads vastly outweighs anything he might have to say. Personally, I just think he's running a good PR damage control campaign after the Panzerkardinal.

edited 24th May '13 4:24:38 AM by pagad

Look... if he lives up to even only a fifth of what he's talking about, he's still one of the biggest reformist movers and shakers around, atm. Certainly the biggest the Vatican has had in decades.

And, it badly needs it. <_< Diss the institution all you want... but, he seems to be trying to uproot some of the problems you have with the whole shebang. Forcibly.

Cheering on the much-needed pruning (even should it have a cynical foundation)? Is not unwarranted. Jesuits: getting the job done... even if you doubt why, exactly, they're doing it or what's in it for them.

edited 24th May '13 4:36:01 AM by Euodiachloris

you know...this...the fact that we have (supposedly) Summer here but I see ice on some car's....I suspect hell has frozen over...

Francis is putting it in a different way, but there doesn't seem to be much difference between his actual stance and that of Benedict XVI, or of the Magisterium in general:

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2013/05/23/pope-francis-atheists-heaven/#more-62786

Don't thank God too soon, as the anarchist said to Tsar Alexander II.

edited 24th May '13 9:35:24 AM by Achaemenid