Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
This kind of reminds me of how Protestant pastors are treated in my country.
Let's just say, they are treated about as well as how lawyers are in America.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
Despite all the jokes, lawyers are treated pretty good here and most are very successful.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Professional Writer & Amateur Scholar
I should have added "as depicted in pop culture". (I rrreally should be more specific in my sayings XP)
You know. Sometimes I wish Protestant had the central system similar to Catholics. Not that it's without its corruption, but it's pretty decent in intervening when its members are misbehaving, at least compared to Protestant.
At least, such is my experience.
I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.
That I do agree with. At least with the Catholics, there is a clear line of accountability and they also are their own country so that allows for different ways to hold them accountable.
But with the Protestants? Not so much.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
A procrastination in of itself
that's because "Protestants" is only a catagory in the sense of what it's not, it's Christians that are not Orthodox or Catholic.
Individual Protestant denominations sometimes do have a hierarchy, the Church of England being the prime example, I believe other national Protestant Churches are similar.
Tough from my understand a lot of US churches are pretty much an entire denomination of their own, as in that one physical church, with anything above that being pretty superficial.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
It's like that in Africa, South America, and Asia as well.
The US is just the loudest about it.
"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur
Well, the idea of "independent Protestants" really started in England and flowered in America, like a lot of things. And then we exported our independent Protestants everywhere else.
It's only a pity we failed (at least for quite a while - things are slowly changing) at intervening in regards to the sexual abuses, the Magdalene Sisters and the money-laundering scandals.
The Changing Role of Women in the Catholic Church
:
In these weekly reflections, the Pope has spoken extensively about the role of parents and particularly about the changing role of women in contemporary society. It is essential, he said, that “women not only be more listened to, but that her voice has real weight, a recognized authoritativeness” both in society and in the Church
Among those listening carefully to the Pope’s words is author and theologian Tina Beattie, who teaches Catholic Studies and heads a research centre for Religion, Society and Human Flourishing at the University of Roehampton in southern England. She talked to Philippa Hitchen about her hopes for a more incisive presence of women in the Catholic Church today…..
Listen:
Professor Beattie says that this year has seen "a surge of activity around these issues", adding that she believe Pope Francis has "made it alright to address these issues and created spaces in which we can speak more freely than we’ve been able to do for a while"….
Asked about her hopes for the coming months, Beattie says sheI would like to see more women in positions of leadership, suggesting that the Pope "could add some women advisors to the nine cardinals who’re advising him – why not?" as well as including more women in the two new congregations that have been spoken about at part of the Curial reform programme. "We can leave out the most sensitive issues of ordination and still do a great deal to include women", she says.
Reacting to the Pope's call for "a profound theology of women", Beattie expresses caution: noting that such a call is really saying the Church lacks a profound theology of the human. "And that’s true", she continues, "this will be the catalyst for a whole new way of understanding theological anthropology…there are many women theologians qualified to contribute – so far not one has ever been quoted or included in formation of official Church teaching."
Should I crosspost this in the Women's Issues thread?
edited 27th Aug '15 7:47:52 AM by Quag15
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
The Mistress
Quag: I say go for it.
"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!
A procrastination in of itself
Working out what counts as a Church hurts my head. We'd generally say that the Catholic Church is one organisation, but we also say that for the Eastern Orthodox Church, however it hasn't got a single leader, it has a group of leaders of the component churches with one being the first amongst equals. Now the Eastern Orthodox system is pretty similar to the Anglican Communion's system, so do we count the Anglican Communion as one Church? But what about other international communions? Does the World Communion of Reformed Churches count? What about the World Methodist Council or the Lutheran World Federation?
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
- Does it give them a benefit to be viewed as a whole = it is an organization
- Would they have to take responsibility for bad actions = not an organization
It's, like, the perfect arrangement.
A procrastination in of itself
Has the Catholic Church ever tried to claim that the Eastern Catholic Churches aren't part of it? In fact when has the Catholic Church tried to claim that sub sections of it aren't part of it because that would mean shouldering responsibility for bad actions?
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Well, there are several criteria. But I think the major ones seem to be (at least from the Catholic Church's perspective):
- Apostolic succession (Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican, Swedish Lutherans);
- Valid Eucharist;
- A clearly defined organizational structure.
No and never. The twenty-three Eastern Catholic churches are all in communion with the Holy See at the Vatican, but are rooted in the theological and liturgical traditions of Eastern Christianity. These Churches were originally part of the Orthodox East, but have since been reconciled to the Roman Church.
edited 27th Aug '15 8:56:28 AM by Quag15
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It's more with denying any responsibility vis à vis the victims and the state for the child abuse stuff for example. The support for dictatorial regimes is another part where it is apparently not the whole church responsible. And also with past misdemeanor of the organization.
edited 27th Aug '15 8:54:35 AM by Antiteilchen
A procrastination in of itself
But that's not saying that they're not part of the organisation, that's saying that parts of the organisation acted on their own.
I mean I agree that the Catholic Church has shrugged responsibility for things that it did have a hand in, but you seem to have just wanted to moan about that and decided to use my unconnected statement as a launching off point.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Thank you for stating what was on my mind.![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
edited 27th Aug '15 9:03:09 AM by Quag15
In the pursuit of great, we failed to do good.
You've hijacked what was a simple question for clarification. We weren't discussing the sex abuse scandals and cover-up.
And I think it's not the first time you do it.
United Earth
Still, the "things done in our name aren't things we should apologize for" argument needs to die in Hellfire, especially when the things in question are done by people who are formally affiliated with us and are supposed to answer to our authority.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Of course. I don't think any of us has ever said such an argument - the Catholic Church has apologized a fair few times (though not as many as we'd like them to do - I think we can agree on that), and is trying to turn things around (though it will take many years and bureaucracy). But there is a time and place to talk about these things here, and today, a while ago, was not the best time.
edited 27th Aug '15 5:47:26 PM by Quag15
How about just letting them talk about it?
It's kinda not off-topic for this thread. Just compare to how the USA gets a lot of criticisms over at the US Politics thread.
On occasion, I also snark about China.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
It is not off-topic, indeed.
But Silasw was asking a couple of questions. Questions which were not about those problems. Once I had finished writing the answers, and Silasw would be (presumably) satisfied, then, sure, he could've talked about it all he wanted (then I would debate with him and so on and so forth...).
The snarking attitude was the least of the problems.
For the sake of comparison, imagine me going to the Russia thread and, while folks there were talking about Putin, I'd suddenly bring up Stalin, without having a right context to do so (or using a flimsy excuse). It's just poor form, to say the least.
edited 27th Aug '15 7:21:34 PM by Quag15
You're trying to end a conversation barely before it begins.
Plenty of conversations go into different tangents while still remaining on topic.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
Ominae, don't worry too much about it. Besides, if he's on the run, he'll probably be caught soon.
At best, if there are nations where Catholics feel more ashamed of their priests' behaviour, it might in the US and Germany (for different reasons, though the misuse of money and other financial crimes are prevalent and something they have in common). And maybe Poland.