4chan

Freedom to criticize does not mean people have to take your criticism seriously, and not being taken seriously is not the same as criticism being silenced.

There are a lot of lessons to be learned from that, because I can guarantee you that no matter what you believe there will always be plenty of people who will think you're an idiot.

I'm just commenting on the hostility towards anyone that criticizes her(or really, feminism at all for that matter). Echo chambers accomplish nothing.

The Bechdel test has aged a bit, since I think the strip that inaugurated it came out some time in the 90's, I think Dykes To Watch Out For was like one of the earliest webcomics. Unfortunately, while dominant or complexly written female characters have appeared since then, there's still not a lot of them, and in any individual work featuring them, they still tend to be the only female presence in the movie. I'm guessing that some of this might explain why people were quick to decry the test after Pacific Rim flunked it.

On a side note, I'm fairly certain The Terminator is the only film in that franchise that passes the Bechdel test, with the scene early on where one of Sarah's coworkers shows her the report of the other Sarah Connor being murdered. I only mention it because you brought up Sarah Connor.

My point exactly, the test doesn't conclusively prove or disprove anything but a possible vague trend(especially considering T2 is the best movie and one where she really becomes a interesting character, and yet is the one to flunk it) because it's a "checklist" test instead of something analyzes the complexities of the work and and the possibility that it has strong female characters that just don't have reason to interact with each other.

Have you ever considered that maybe these criticisms aren't perfect? I know that sounds kind of douchey, but not all opinions are created equal since some are much more rooted in understanding than others, so sometimes certain opinions will be taken less seriously by those who know what they're talking about. Again, I know it sounds harsh, but that's really just how it works sometimes.

Like, that comment you made about characters who are sexy kind of misses the point, since in most feminist writings there is actually a key difference between sexiness and objectification. Hell, some feminists I've seen have actually praised Bayonetta of all characters for how she does sex appeal, which is actually more or less completely opposite of what Anita Sarkeesian said about her.

This essay does a very good job of exploring some of the differences, and although it mostly applies to comics, it's not really all that different for video games.

edited 17th Sep '14 6:25:33 PM by Zennistrad

I'm fully aware I'm not perfect and no-one is, but I've seen people simply say the word "can we talk about the possible corruption in gaming journalism" and be dismissed as sexist pigs.

I'm no contesting that, and I'm aware of that fact. People like Anita not being aware of it and condemning all sex appeal as bad is one of my criticisms towards them because enjoying fanservice(and maybe even creating it) is a basic human instinct, as Maddox said "how about you stop dehumanizing possiblly the most human thing thing about humanity?"

Guys, please stop bringing up Anita Sarkeesian in this thread. People already got thumped for trying to turn the thread into a pseudo-thread about literally who, just make your own thread about it next time.

edited 17th Sep '14 6:48:28 PM by Raidouthe21st

We can't, there's a permaban on making threads about Feminist Frequency.

It's BS, but the ban is there because anything other than gushing or total neutrality tends to be frowned on when that show is brought up.

No. It's because many of the people who were negative didn't know how to express their negative criticism without being total douchebags.

I didn't see any of that(and if want to be blunt, many of the her supporters were being rabid towards people that disagreed)

Suggestion: another forum I use has a section called "the debate pit" more dicey threads are sent to and some level of heated discussion is allowed.

edited 17th Sep '14 7:58:58 PM by shoboni

I hardly think that people being less than polite to you because of a difference in opinion is really all that bad. If you think it is...

Well, I can tell you from personal experience that I don't think you've lived through anything resembling true hardship.

So, is it true that 4chan got an all new mod staff out of this?

No idea, although the feedback page is now kill.

And apparently all of Germany's ip addresses are blocked now. Can someone confirm this?

edited 18th Sep '14 7:54:35 AM by Raidouthe21st

I can't tell if the mods are really deleting everything on all boards or is it just /v/ overreacting.

Actually I take that back, the rest of 4chan looks fine.

edited 18th Sep '14 8:32:15 AM by Mullon

To quote one of my friends on Twitter: "That sounds like something Fast Eddie has threatened in the past."

im sorry please dont ban me

Zen, does that men real life or online?

I can assure I've gone through more shit, and stood by friends and family through more shit a lot of these people have, I've just learned from my mistakes and developed a thing called tact and "remaining calm in a serious debate"

edited 18th Sep '14 12:05:45 PM by shoboni

It's just that a lot of the time I feel people are placing far too much energy on hurt feelings. After some of the stuff I've been through I can't really get upset at someone calling me "misogynist." Not worth the energy.

You mean like Anita started all this because a game hurt her feelings?

Well, when the idea of sexism in media is based in actual academic criticism and sociopsychological studies? No.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11199-009-9695-4

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103108001005

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ejsp.755/abstract

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/october/virtual-female-avatars-100913.html

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S074756321200369X

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103185710220

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0747563213002525

I won't refute that, but seems to have a very loose grasp of what sexism is and the idea that behavior can occur in media and be seen as bad.

Again(as we discussed) she seems to have a loose grasp on sexualization vs objectification.

edited 18th Sep '14 1:51:45 PM by shoboni

Yeah, I'm aware.

So, is Germany still banned or was that just a massive fuckup?

Far as I can tell, Germany's still range-banned as of now. Some people are saying they're managing to get through, but most are still reporting they're locked out. And I don't think it's a "fuck-up" in the traditional sense. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a range-ban is like the fumigation approach to pest control, where they block nearly all forms of commercial and public ips from that particular country to avoid previously banned people piggybacking off those. Whatever their reasons, whether it's being done by a rogue mod or with official consent, this could have been a result of a miss-communication...but it certainly wasn't done by mistake.

edited 18th Sep '14 3:06:10 PM by Raidouthe21st

Why Germany?

yeah if anything id thought it be Australia who moot said has the most shitposters.