Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.

I wonder why she wasn't before.

I kind of figured this was happening considering the end of the season, but it's nice to have confirmation.

Budget most likely...Ao S has a pretty large cast already.

Eh, I like Season 2. I tapered off of this show after the LMD pod finished, watched some clips of the HYDRA!world pod, and followed mostly through cliff notes - I saw Coulson reference fake news, an LT Koening just as staunch as the rest, a white Russian supremacist character, a good version of Ward, Aida flying around with all of the Inhuman powerset, an evil Fitz working for HYDRA - just kind of lost interest around there. I was proven wrong about Mace being secretly evil or going through a Face–Heel Turn.

The last episode I watched in its entirety was when Coulson, Mack, Fitz, and Mace were replaced by LMD's and Jemma and Daisy went into the Framework to rescue them.

Season 2 had:

• Ward going rogue
• Skye finding out her origin
• Calvin "THAT'S NOT HER NAME" Zabo (who got an admittedly less than stellar transformation sequence, but the hype around him was great)
• May vs 33 (table head-SLAM)
• Mockingbird vs Alien guy
• Daniel "Douche-nozzle" Whitehall
• HYDRA (even if they did jacksh't and were mostly red shirts for the season) and Jiaying (who saw that coming?) as the main antagonists
• SHIELD Civil War
• The introduction of the New Warriors that seemed oh so promising back then
• And despite most seeming to not like him, I miss Deathlok and loved it when he rescued Coulson and Fitz.

edited 7th Oct '17 7:49:43 AM by Soble

I thought some of the show's stronger acting actually came out of the Agents of Hydra arc, but the LMD pod was hit and miss for me. Nitro was pretty cool to see, but the rest of the stuff with the Watchdogs basically went nowhere, the Superior included. And Ghost Rider was cool, but I thought the first pod of the season was a bit slow and didn't have quite enough payoff.

I'll second season two for best season, though. The stakes felt more real in that season. I didn't like how Jiaying went full Magneto in the end, and I was disappointed by how Trip and Raina exited the show, but they had a really strong ensemble for that whole season, juggling a lot of different plots without it feeling (ahem) artificial. Ward and Agent 33 weaving in and out the season, Whitehall with a great look as the fakeout villain, Hydra still a threat, Talbot still a wild card, Hartley's crew who kind of felt like they were exactly what the show had been missing, and much as I was sad to see the Real SHIELD go, as shock deaths go, I'll grant you it was effective.

I was a big fan of Deathlok. I really liked the slow buildup with that character, and it's too bad he never got to be more of a part of the show.

edited 7th Oct '17 6:55:08 AM by Unsung

I don't really rank Ao S in seasons anymore, or even in episodes (though season 4 episode 15 was certainly the best), but in arcs. And the Agent of Hydra pod was the most nervewrecking by far. On place two is for me actually the Fall of Shield Arc from season 1.

Where did this "pod" terminology even come from?

From the showrunners.

Season 4, Episode 15:

• LMD's ahoy.
• I already know the gist of this arc and how it ends, so, these switches:
  • May was switched when she was at Radcliffe's, they found her out, Coulson reactivates her, May's LMD sacrifices herself to destroy the rest
  • Coulson, Mack, Mace, and Daisy were all switched when they went after The Superior. Jemma realizes that the radio silence/time table for the mission is iffy. Was the real Coulson present when Daisy walked in on him and the Superior?
    • Fitz had to have been switched in order for Radcliffe/Aida to get this timing right.
  • When was Fitz switched?
• Coulson and Mace are discussing their top secret LMD plans while just... walking down the hallway, while admitting that they're outnumbered at the base?
  • Mace's LMD says that they'll have the Inhumans executed, so that's basically what the Watchdogs wanted.
    • But didn't Radcliffe believe in protecting life. So did Aida program these LMD's, or did Radcliffe?

edited 7th Oct '17 10:08:12 AM by Soble

I honestly never got why people suspected Jeffrey of being evil.

Genre Savvy backfire.

[upThat. Deliberate on the part of the writers, too, I suspect. Not like the agents haven't been burned before.

Personally I largely preferred Season 4, but mostly because I loved the LMD arc that much. The last episode of it was probably the tensest episode of the entire show.

For me, it's Season 4 > Season 2 > Season 1 > Season 3. Season 4, I feel was just great top to bottom and had the strongest performances, especially in the LMD arc where they had to hide the smaller budget for that set. L May D had the most tragic arc:

edited 7th Oct '17 7:22:28 PM by MegaJ

I'd swap Season 1 and Season 3 in that ranking, personally. Hive was great, Daisy being brainwashed into betrayal was great, Powers Boothe as Malick was good, and the episode with Simmons on the planet was outstanding. It unfortunately suffered from some lazy and bad writing in the first half mostly. Ward became a shadow of his former glory and his biggest contribution was fridging a character solely to piss Coulson off and trying to do the same with Dr. Garner, Hunter kinda got dumber, and they were really bad at juggling between some of the characters in the first half. Personally I didn't have a problem with Lincoln like a lot of people did but Rosalyn deserved to live, damn it. Also Lash just kinda fucking sucked.

edited 7th Oct '17 8:43:11 PM by AdricDePsycho

Season 3 was just very uneven for me; season 1 started out pretty slow but I would be hard pressed to say that any of it was bad, and then after The Winter Soldier came out, it kicked into high gear. And season 3 also sank the FitzMack ship, which I went down with.

I do commend season 3 for actually making me feel something about Lincoln's death.

edited 7th Oct '17 7:46:48 PM by MegaJ

I'm sorry, but I felt jack for Discount Static Shock Lincoln. This show could never make me like him as much it wanted to

edited 7th Oct '17 8:42:13 PM by Soble

Wait did I type Hive that second time? Fuck, I meant Lash, fixed it. Lash was a huge waste to pad the show out and honestly went out in a huge asspull.

edited 7th Oct '17 8:44:11 PM by AdricDePsycho

His, "You know killing me won't make the pain go away. (beat) Or will it? I don't remember," line gets me every damned time.

Oh, okay, that makes more sense. I've heard one or two minor grumblings about Hive, but never that he was terrible. Lash was completely underutilized, and when he was utilized he was pretty boring. He had his moments showing that he could have been great if they gave him more room to breathe, but they were juggling a lot of plots that season.

Yeah like, Hive was one of the best villains on the show and I've maintained that for a while. It gave Brett Dalton something new to do while keeping him on the show, and the man is a damn great actor. Lash on the other hand was just kinda...eh? I like the concept, but the execution was muddy, it doesn't take up nearly enough time to develop, and it kinda just ends abruptly by having him asspull a way to break Daisy out of Hive's mind control while redeeming himself in a heroic sacrifice.

The thing with season 3 is that while it might be a little bit wonky overall, it has some of the best episodes and scenes of the whole show. "Maveth" is certainly a stand out, and the episode with the poor Inhumans who gets all this visions is the best exploration of time I have seen in any TV show. There is no bigger nail biter than Fitz trying to pull Jemma back through the portal. There is no bigger tear jerker than the Spies goodbye. And then there is the season finale which just delivers on every level, including giving Hive a really thoughtful send-off (and showing everyone how to use religious symbols and references correctly).

There is no doubt in my mind that season 1 is overall the weakest of them all....as good as the last episodes are, there is no denying that the first 13 are somewhere between mediocre and downright terrible, with the notable exceptions of Tracks. There is also no doubt that season 4 is the strongest. As much as I wasn't really pleased by the Ghost Rider Arc - Robby was great, but he took too much attention away from the other characters and the story itself was a little bit slow-moving for the show - the LMD and the Agent of Hydra arc really delivered and I don't mind at all that they set-up stuff for the future along the way. It's between season 2 and season 3 I can't decide...as I said, season 3 has some of the best episodes and moments, but season 2 has the stronger arcs and the stronger villains. Ward is still ambiguous instead of straight up evil (it was great fun to try and figure him out), Whitehall is creepy, Bakshi is slimy, Mr. Hyde tragic, Raina unexpected and Jianjing (or however her name is spelled) terrifyingly calculating. I mean, Hyde did creep me out big time, but he wasn't actually particularly interesting until the last five minutes.

I liked Lincoln's death, but only for what it added to Hive's.

I for one think that the show got better with each season. As for Lincoln, that character sucked ass, but his death did give me something of an Alas, Poor Scrappy feeling. I felt far more for Hive however

By the way, in which role did you liked Brett Dalton best? As the 'mainstream' Grant Ward, as Hive or as the Framework-Grant Ward?

I liked him the best in season 2, when I was still trying to figure him out. His scenes with Daisy and Fitz were sooooo good....especially when Fitz was suffocating him and when Daisy just shot him the moment he turned his back to her. To this day the best moment for her character!

Anyway, in case someone has missed it, Ao S Season 5 will premier on December 1 with a two hour episode! Can't wait!!!!

And I still hope that they have something special planned for Episode 100.