Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru

/rant mode on

I'm glad you put "nice" in quotes. I think you stumbled across the reason that I want to hit Hachiman with a cluebat.

Sure, he may be sparing Yui a potential loss of reputation by not accepting her confession, but he his approach sure has Jerkass written all over it, IMHO. If he doesn't want Yui as a girlfriend, he should grow a pair and reject her so that she can move on. If he wouldn't mind Yui as a girlfriend, but is concerned that she couldn't handle the potential reputation loss, he should talk it over with her and let her make the call on whether on not to accept the risk.

All in all, I'm beginning to think Hachiman is a coward at heart.

/rant mode off

edited 31st May '13 11:47:34 AM by OscarWildecat

If Yui either wants a relationship or move on, she should grow a pair and actually confess. If she doesn't want to risk disrupting the status quo, why should he?

I'll admit I am overly hard on Hachiman, and soft on Yui. This probably stems from the fact that there's something about Hachiman's world view that just bugs the hell out of me(*). On the other hand, I have sympathy for — maybe even pity — Yui.

(*) The last part of this episode probably brings out what it is that's bugging me. To quote a post on another forum:

In a nutshell, in avoiding the "illusions" of youth, he's fell victim to his own illusions.

"He who fights monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." - Nietzsche.

That too. However, his ideals were unsustainable to begin with and were bound to break sooner or later.

edited 31st May '13 12:23:33 PM by OscarWildecat

He basically hates that he broke his own ideals.

I thought it was pretty obvious Hachiman is a coward in general, I think he even called himself one at some point (but this is a vague memory so don't quote me)

If he did, I don't recall. But then, I reserve the right to be wrong.

He wasn't exactly being a coward per se. The Japanese are a very reserved people, he just took the approach which would provide less of an inconvenience to others. I wouldn't say he was doing a Kodaka, because Kodaka was aware of their feelings as early as the second season.

Hachiman's just beginning to become aware of these things very late as he's deluded himself into thinking that he can't ever have a stable relationship. I'm not sure if what he did was right, but I certainly wouldn't condemn him for his actions.

I may be wrong, but I don't get the feeling that Hachiman would ever go full-on nandatte mode.

If one of the girls actually confessed to him I think he'd genuinely be shocked at this point, and maybe even unsure how to react for a second or two.

edited 31st May '13 6:13:03 PM by UltimatelySubjective

I'm genuinely curiously at this point at to if the Japanese have a term/concept/etc. that covers the idea of inconveniencing others out of a desire not to inconvenience them.

I've seen this at play not only in this anime, but in at least one other. (In that one, the variation was, "I'll make the girl I like sad, because I don't want to see her sad.")

Note, as always, I know this is a YMMV concept, but I think it would inconvenience Yui less if he were to communicate that he's not interested. However, that may be beyond his capabilities at this time... [puzzled face would go here if the forum had one].

I'm not quite sure how it works myself. I guess it's because when they do apologize, it's to an extreme degree to the point of bowing or prostrating themselves in front of the offended party. That in mind, they try to avoid apologizing as much as possible. See "WW 2".

I'm not sure if this is the case with Hachiman though, he might be an exception to the rule. Clearly, he is interested in her, but he can't sort out his own feelings. He doesn't want to leave her hanging either with a "wait" reply as that would get her hopes up.

edited 31st May '13 6:38:41 PM by Jigaboo

Thoughts on the episode:

• I find it interesting that the show keeps coming up with situations where Hikki has to compliment Yui's appearance. And that he knows he's supposed to and does so reluctantly. It's an odd thing to have recur.
• Haruno says her mom is "even scarier than me". She's acknowledging that she's scary? She has that sort of self-aware facade where she doesn't necessarily expect to trick people but everyone feels obligated to play along anyway. I think we call this "politeness"? I've also noticed people having a negative reaction to her "don't worry, the car is fine" but that didn't seem too unusual to me. I mean, she knows he's fine now, so what else would she say?
• Hikki rejecting Yui (again) seems perfectly in character. He's terrified of relationships after all, even if he kinda-sorta wants one, maybe. If she had actually managed to confess I'd imagine he'd try to convince her to take it back rather than rejecting her.

He is.

I rather like that Hikki's worldview has been dented. His ideals might not be nice, but they're still ideals. Time to face reality. How will his interactions with Yuki change? With an additional helping of indifference? Disappointment? I'm curious.

(Feel free to continue telling us your social know-how as well)

I didn't notice that bit about Hikki being compelled to compliment Yui. I guess it's just the usual ship tease?

@ Oscar Wildecat He's not rejecting Yui because he thinks it's likely that Yui doesn't like him, that any "moment" they've had was just a product of his delusions. And he's a coward. He's probably too scared of a potential rejection ("what, you thought I liked you?").

Episode 9:

• Komachi is a good little sister. <refrains from referencing Ore Imo>
• Hikki settles for the Schrodinger's confession.
• Vaguely jerkass older sis is vaguely jerkass.

That fits with the post I quoted above. Given that Yui hasn't hit him over the head with a "lovebat" (so to speak), he's allowing his apparent phobia of misunderstanding take over. Now, whether or not Yui has the ability to wield said "lovebat" is another story altogether.

Yea. Relationships are a minefield of potential misunderstandings, afterall.

edited 1st Jun '13 6:17:23 AM by OscarWildecat

I am afraid that if she did, he would reject her anyway. Not cause he isn't interested at all, but simply any relationship is currently too much for him.

I think the newest episode has one of the most beautiful turning around of an old cliche I've seen in some time. Hachiman is good about that. "Oh, you should rely on others!" (Said, mind, to a person who only has that much work because no one else is taking on as much work as she does.) Hachiman's reply: "I'm sure relying on others is important, like you said. After all, everyone here wants to rely on someone else with all they've got." That is absolutely fantastic. Moments like that are why I like him so much.

By extension, it's also why I like the show. It's pretty ruthless towards that kind of stupid platitude.

I really, really hate the girl with the braids. (Meguri, I think?) Seriously, has she never been around a person who has a brother or sister? Ever? Because the Japanese birthrate cannot possibly be that bad. I was the "good sibling" in my household and I was still making little strangling motions in mid-air every time she brought up Haruno to try and make Yukino do something. YOU DO NOT DO THAT. It's generally an IRL Berserk Button for people with siblings, and for good reason — it's way too damn common and it's incredibly frustrating to deal with. Seeing her stomp on that button like Godzilla on Tokyo was like nails on a chalkboard.

edited 6th Jun '13 7:41:42 PM by Einander

As somebody who has admitted to being hard on Hikki, I'm going to have to give him credit this time around. His sourpuss attitude toward life was what was needed at that moment.

I think they just needed someone to step on that point, which she does as often as she can. It's a bit tacky, really, but also vocalises what the rest of the students probably think. It could be dealt with subtler.

Episode 10

Yui: Errr... Attempt to break the awkward silence that only makes things more awkward?
Yukinoshita and 8man are just too self-assured. The just dominate the atmosphere in that situation.
8man: I am immune to feeling unwanted by the whole class and in fact your half-hearted rejection fills me with contempt.
Yukinoshita of course isn't happy about being compared to her sister.
I am somewhat on the side of the less popular people.
Oh, that's an evil stare Yukino's getting.
Aand I'm not entirely sure what's happening with the work dynamics.

I'm also not sure what's up with the play, but it seems like Hachiman's going to be jealous.

edited 6th Jun '13 11:04:43 PM by UltimatelySubjective

This is an excellent episode, easily my favourite. Filled with context, especially subtext

The work dynamics? This is how I analysed it.

The reason Yukino didn't become the chairman is because she knew that no matter how good a job she would do, the teachers and the sempais would go "As expected of Haruno's sister!", and the whole thing would add to Haruno's achievement, which is pointless from her point of view.

Sagami on the other hand, got herself appointed as chairman probably for the prestige. She asked Yukino for help because she's rather lazy, so she wanted Yukino to help her with the work. Yukino sees through this, as does Yui, but Yukino decides to help even though she has the excuse of club activities being suspended, because she wants to use Sagami as a cat's paw.

She'll do the work, Sagami gets the credit, and when it ends up being even better than Haruno's festival, no one will connect her to it, so her sister's achievement will be overthrown. Yukino can then take pleasure in her secondhand victory over her sister. (Of course, Yukino being Yukino, she messes up her own plan from the start because she doesn't understand that a good right hand must be unobtrusive, and she's being direct to the point where she would probably end up with the credit anyway. Sagami understands this, which is why she got pissed, and became even lazier)

Now, enter Haruno. I don't know what Meguri told her exactly. But Haruno basically figures out the whole situation when Sagami pops in late. In order to troll Yukino, she gives Sagami a pretext to be even lazier. Sagami being Sagami, takes the bait, and to cover herself in case the festival goes bad, she tells everyone to take it easier, (this way they can't blame her). Obviously Yukino would be left holding the bag, doing all the work.

I assume Haruno's goal was to put so much pressure on Yukino that she would be forced to ask for help, (which is why Haruno, a university student, decided to volunteer, rather than getting out of it by lying abut a paper or something,so she'd be there). This way, even if Yukino's plan worked and they made a better festival than Haruno, Yukino would know what happened, Haruno would be there, and she would know, and Yukino would know that Haruno knew, and even the secondhand victory would turn to ashes in her mouth.

EDIT: Sorry,spoiler tags not working.

edited 7th Jun '13 12:05:02 AM by Chaosjunction

I can't guess what your problem is, but I suspect it's that you were trying to use one set of spoiler tags for multiple paragraphs. Each paragraph needs its own start and ending tags. If it's not that, check the show markup help again and make sure you're formatting correctly.

(Really hate that TV Tropes's formatting eats multiple line breaks. This is a break to change trains of thought; I am no longer specifically addressing the above post.)

I think Haruno really does like Yukino, in her own screwed-up kind of way. There are hints that she's a pretty twisted person. I think she was deliberately butting in to the festival in order to destroy it, particularly encouraging Sagami to "enjoy the festival," which is what destroys the group's work ethic and makes everything start to fall apart.

If the festival tanks because of Sagami's failure of leadership, then Yukino becomes a noble figure — a tireless worker trying desperately to save the festival from the incompetence of its figurehead leader. She's not good enough to save it, but she is good enough to make a visible difference, and Haruno knows her well enough to know she'd fall ill like she does here. Furthermore, causing Yukino to fail in following in Haruno's footsteps encourages her to stop doing that in favor of something where she's less likely to be compared to Haruno and come up short.

Naturally, Hachiman's going to play Spanner in the Works, but it's otherwise a very clever plan.

edited 7th Jun '13 12:34:41 AM by Einander

Thanks that makes sense. Damn I must have missed the cues.

Was Yukino going to refuse help before Hachiman's intervention?

This might be the episode I feel the most for Yuki. She's in a bad spot, and it doesn't really get better when people interfere.

The only thing I can say is that while Sagami isn't exactly all that sympathetic, she's in way over her head to the point where it gets hard to blame her for everything she does.

I'm not really sure what Haruno's plan is, but I have a few ideas.

I feel Haruno's aware of the situation, which is why she's actively telling Sagami to laze around even more. She wants the people to see her in a worse light, so if worse comes to worse, it'll be on Sagami and Yukinon will most likely be hailed a hero. An unsuccessful hero, but a hero nonetheless. It's her own twisted way of looking out for her sister. This was one of her goals. Her plan at the moment set a lot of things into motion, mentioned in above posts. She's so good at what she does, it's almost scary. Manipulating them.

Haruno's like a perfected Hikki. They both get their way through unorthodox means, but Haruno has looks and athletic ability and to top it off, manages to come out on top all the time. Shallow, but that's what matters the most when you want to be popular. I reckon Hikki would've been as good as Haruno if he'd been given her assets. Less manipulative, but a close enough match.

That said, the two, Haruno and Hikki, are shaping up to be my favorite characters of the show.

On an unrelated note, anyone else catch sensei's wink and Hikki's smile at Totsuka?

edited 7th Jun '13 7:33:07 AM by Jigaboo

Nope, I didn't.

This show is incredibly dark. And all these clever plans and subtle manipulations... for something so petty...

Hey, hey hey. They just wanna have fun at the fetival!