The Psychology Thread

Not to mention that every undercover cop in the world is not engaging in those kind of practices.

OK — what else is self-deception but when you decide that everybody else outside your specific bubble is wrong? And, that their version of events must, by definition, be untrue?

When there is plenty of outside evidence to prove the reverse... regardless of whether you wish to accept that or not. However much you may honestly believe that you are right and that only your view (and those that hold a similar one) counts... well...

Welcome to narcissism of the acquired situational form and its associated delusions. Should you push it enough. <_<

edited 28th Mar '14 11:28:38 AM by Euodiachloris

In that case, religion is self-deception. As are political ideologies. Using your definition of self-deception all strongly held opinions are self-deceptions.

...Self-deception doesn't have to be something you deliberately do to yourself, though. It can creep up on you. There are levels to getting to that point, though. Even the "honestly held belief" bit is a level.

But, the more you ignore the signs that there is a problem between your take on the world, what you're telling yourself things should be like and what other people see and react to... The less you can honestly look yourself in the mirror and say you were totally surprised to find out you were lying to yourself (even if those "lies" started out as things you were taught or honestly believed to be actual things).

Frankly: perception itself involves a lot of the brain telling parts of itself symbolic rough guesses that can, when looked at, be thought of as "lies". -_- We all deceive ourselves about many things on a daily basis. No exceptions.

My point is its not necessarily bad in itself. Only when it starts becoming a problem is it "bad".

edited 28th Mar '14 11:45:59 AM by Euodiachloris

Self deception is fooling yourself, lying to yourself. It doesn't hinge on whether what you're deceiving yourself about is right or wrong, correct or false. It's just as easy to deceive yourself that you don't like something or that it's wrong as it is to self-deceive yourself that you do like it or that it's right.

What I get from this is self deception isn't necessarily bad per se but it can be a problem. Don't deceive yourself can be anvilicious if you do it on daily basis and yet not know about it. Am I wrong?

I would say that self-deception is bad per se, but whether or not it's a big problem depends on the specific circumstances.

Random question.

Is it possible to get PTSD...from what you've done to someone?

In an original novel I wrote^note Oh yeah, this one I can actually proudly say I finished it, 282 pages on Word Doc, and 105K words, baby , the main character, in his childhood, was a victim of a bullying for a couple of years, from 4th to 5th grade. When he couldn't take it anymore, he lured the bully in a secluded place and sliced his face open with a shard of glass, partially blinding the bully in one eye.

The sheer amount of blood and screaming from the bully, however, was so brutal that it lingers in his mind, ten years later. In fact, at times he even has a nightmare about it, and violence fills his heart with dread, but sometimes he just feels very empty and tired, rarely getting good night of sleep.

Does any of this make sense?

I think so. It's likely part of how many soldiers get PTSD

Also ther was a video on You Tube our teacher showed to us today about self deception and rationalization

I'll see if I can find it. It's one of those videos where a French guy is drawing out this big infographic as it plays

edited 31st Mar '14 6:58:05 PM by Xopher001

Do they? I thought soldiers mostly get PTSD from having their lives threatened.

Then again, you are probably right, since UAV pilots are reported to suffer from PTSD as well.

Say, what are some medications for treating symptoms of PTSD?

edited 31st Mar '14 7:02:51 PM by dRoy

You can totally get PTSD from your actions.

Now what medications you may use depends on what the symptoms are and how strong they are.

Gimmie some quarks and I will try to point you in the right path.

I see. Also, is it possible to get PTSD from just a single, albeit very shocking, event?

Hmm...

Firstly, he gets nightmare about the incident, at least once every three days or so, and everytime it's different, such as the bully appearing like a monster, etc. Also, the topic of bullying and physical violence make him really uncomfortable. At the same time, he becomes angry very easily, and despite his best efforts, sometimes it manifests in violent way. In fact, the whole plot kicks in when tried to murder a teaching assistant and failed.

By the way, would it make sense for someone who gets uncomfortable with the idea of violence...to commit a very deliberate and (although flawed) alculated act of violence?

edited 31st Mar '14 7:34:20 PM by dRoy

Very much: there will be people caught up in 9/11 with horrendous PTSD. And, that was one event. Also kidnappings. A single rape... you name it.

Other people? Nope: it really depends on the person. Also, somebody may have delayed onset. They might walk away from something traumatic they did or had done to them and seem perfectly fine and even have rationalised and dealt with the consequences. For years. Then... *boom* something triggers the flashbacks (and, it needn't be a traumatic event). <_<

Shock, stress and PTSD: fickle buggers.

edited 1st Apr '14 10:20:52 AM by Euodiachloris

Just curious but can it also be from something someone else did to a third person? The person having PTSD is neither the victim nor the perpetrator but just a bystander.

Yeah, of course. <a bit confused> I thought that was a given... <_< Emergency workers have been known to get PTSD dealing with the hell that happens to other people. Watching others suffer is stressful.

I knew it was traumatic. I was just not sure it would be classified under PTSD.

Here: have a pdf about the effects of the London Bombing in 2005 on emergency workers. You'll find PTSD as one of them.

It's fairly well accepted that you don't have to be responsible for all hell breaking loose or to be the direct target of it to be strongly affected by what happens.

edited 1st Apr '14 10:30:22 AM by Euodiachloris

Yes, you can get PTSD from one incident and you can get it as a third party. EM Ts, Police and fire fighters often have what can be called Career PTSD from dealing with everything they do and see.

Okay, first off the nightmares:

Best treated with therapy, but he may be on something like melatonin to help him sleep. Anything heavier than that can interfere with any psychotropic drugs they may put him on.

Alrighty, do you want him to have a good doctor, bad doctor or what?

Yes, even if you have a specific aversion to violence, there are ways around that. Humans are great at justifying things to themselves, but take the most simple path. Don't get crazy or you're not going to have a semi-functional PTSD sufferer, you'll have a full blown psychosis.

Example, I hate hurting people, but if I hurt this bully so that he cannot hurt someone else, then I am saving people. Something that could be right, but is just a little off.

Makes sense. Empathie and all it doesn't matter much if bad stuff happens to you personally or someone else, it's horrible either way.

Another example would be children, parents, or spouses of trauma sufferers. Regretfully, we are learning more about this from the soldiers coming back messed up and how it is affecting their family.

Polarstern specializes in kids and was actually working specifically with soldiers and their families. You may want to hollar at her if you want more details.

Childhood PTSD thanks to things like messy divorces or actual domestic violence is often ignored. <_< And, then people wonder why things can snowball in the teens and twenties. -_-

The biggest "duh" moment you can get, frankly. The old myth that "kids are wonderful and can cope with so much!" is a killer. -_-

edited 1st Apr '14 10:47:21 AM by Euodiachloris

@Gab, Euo - Ah, I see. Thanks for the info, they are very interesting.

And yet at the some corner, people say things like "Think of the children!"

Make up your mind, people.

By the way, do many Americans still think PTSD is only for the-to be vulgar-pussies?

It seems that in Korea, it seems to be the case; apparently you are supposed to be able to go all Rambo and shake off any mental damage. Never mind that Rambo himself is a PTSD victim.

Depends where you are and probably what you have the PTSD from.

Like down here (Southeast USA), we have a lot of military so there is more sympathy for a solider who saw combat (emphasis that they had to have actually seen it, bonus points if you were wounded.) compared to someone who was raped or someone who suffered from child abuse.

With the families of trauma suffers is that the trauma itself causing problems or is it more what the trauma makes the sufferer do?

Both.

I have seen both.

My dad was a cop and kept a lot of that to himself. But my mom was a victim's advocate for the prosecutor and she could not handle it. It strongly affected her which made her treat us kids odd, specifically my older sister.

Then I have also seen the partners of my friends who are survivors change as soon as they discover their partner's past. They don't get mean or whatever, it's just some of them get really depressed or angry on behalf of them. I have a friend from childhood who had to distance herself from me when my son's father pulled his stunts because she was just too empathetic and couldn't handle it herself.