Pathfinder

Knowledge (to me) is "I've read a book on it," whereas Profession is "I've been trained to do this."

Someone with Knowledge (Arcana) could tell you which parts of a Dragon are edible. Someone with Profession (Gourmet Chef) could actually cook it.

edited 27th Feb '15 2:02:01 PM by Frishman

Craft has almost always played a role in my group. Our current group is the only one we've ever played without an alchemist or similar character type.

@1201 The simple explanation from the book goes along those lines. But then you start getting into hair-splitting based on how certain skills are defined. For example, what if the players ask a question about chemical reactions (I dealt with this as a GM in games even before alchemist was a class choice - afterwards, I found that alchemists, wizards, and sorcerers were quite interested in questions that could be answered with chemistry knowledge). Do you demand a Knowledge (Chemistry) check to see if the characters know it, or a Craft (Alchemy) check? I can certainly tell you which the players were more likely to take, and it's not the Knowledge skill, despite the fact that, by the descriptions, it should be a Knowledge skill check.

Heck, if we're talking about what parts of a dragon are edible, is that a Knowledge (Arcana) or a Survival check? I've seen arguments for both (on a less "let's eat sophonts" discussion, the same with identifying which parts would be valuable to part out and sell to magic-users for item construction).

I know some GMs will just say that either skill can be rolled, so as to allow multiple party members the chance to shine. That's certainly a merit to ambiguity between skills; the drawback is that it's sometimes tough to justify one skill when you can instead grab another that could do the same thing and other stuff. Just for example, let's take cooking. There's an argument that it should be a Profession skill (people do become professional cooks, after all). There's an argument that it should be a Craft skill (you take raw ingredients and transform them via skill into a finished product). Then there's the argument that it's just an offshoot of the Survival skill (being able to turn what you foraged into nutrition is pretty danged important to keep surviving). Sure, the Survival specialist probably can't make a delicate consomme or chicken Florentine over freshly-made sage-garlic gnocchi, but I've found that actual culinary art practice is rare in Pathfinder games (not to say I haven't played games with large amounts of cooking as a plot-important device, but they weren't in Pathfinder or any d20 system). You can probably just take Survival and cook just fine... plus be able to get food, identify what's safe to eat, and be able to track things as a bonus.

Short version, it's just one of those things that each group/GM has to make their own call on.

A Knowledge (Alchemy) check has a lower DC than a Craft (Alchemy) check, is what I'd rule.

I'd say Knowledge checking is a lot more focused on the 'why'- you're a scientist, not an engineer, as a shitty metaphor? You know /about/ stuff mostly, and you can only make a little of it.

Opposite for craft, though I'd probably say Craft is better in the end.

I have an interesting quandry in front of me.

Last session, the GM presented us with loot, that he deliberately set up to suit members of our party. The half-orc fighter got the next piece of a chain of items as a story arc, which effectively function as a belt of giant strength +2 in their current state (and it's very heavily hinted that those will get stronger when other pieces are assembled). The human sorcerer with a habit of anthropomorphizing anything that can move on its own got the +1 AC ioun stone, which she loved and immediately named "Jake" (much to the rest of our amusement, because we misheard her and thought she named it "Jerk"). The human thief (who likes kiting his foes) got a +1 darkwood buckler. My character, the elven bard? I got a scroll of legend lore.

The GM after session asked for an update on my character's possessions, and he realized something - he's been kind of screwing my character over regarding wealth. He's got the weakest set of magical gear of the party - in fact, one of his magical items (a rapier +1) never even gets used (he's a ranged specialist; he only has the rapier because the rogue and the fighter already have something better). And not only is the magical item given to my character a one-shot item (as opposed to reusable like the rest of the party's gear), but he can't even use it properly yet due to level (I could theoretically use a legend lore scroll with a UMD check... if I roll a 19 or 20).

This is on top of the fact that, due to circumstances and how my alignment/personality mesh, my character actually lost gold after the last adventure (mine were the finite resources that got used up - other party members saw their gold amount rise in addition to the fun items). Now, to his credit, the GM fessed up that it was a bit unfair that I kind of ate it on the last session and promised to make it up to me. That said, this is where the quandry sets in.

The GM has asked me to go through the magical item list and suggest two or three magical items that would be suitable for my character. He would then either pick one of those or tweak it slightly to fit the campaign, and he'd figure out a way to get it to me in the story.

My challenge is, what do I pick? To give background, he's a level 5 elven bard. He uses acting and singing for his performance types (i.e. he can't play musical instruments), his spell list has been focused on healing and summons (the party doesn't have a cleric) with a couple of minor buff/debuffs on hand, and his preferred weapon is the longbow. Featwise, he has Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and Arcane Strike. So far, a mithril chain shirt or gloves of arrow snaring seem like good fits, but suggestions welcome.

Those both solid choices that don't get too greedy. The headband of alluring charisma (+2) is usually a pretty good boon as well. Depends on whether or not you'll get good mileage out of the +1 to your bonus or not.

Have you looked at the gloves of arcane striking from Ultimate Equipment?

@1208 I looked at that; it's a possibility, although due to the fact that I'm frequently the skill expert and my charisma is already pretty solid, I might actually get more out of the headband of vast intelligence (+2) instead, as that buffs more skills that I'm likely to fail plus gives me an extra five skill points to allot.

Alternately, I've considered asking about the circlet of persuasion. Sure, it doesn't give me the boost to the DC to save against my spells that the headband of alluring charisma gives (although the GM's dice roll extremely well when foes save against my debuffs - he's not just barely making those saves), but the fact that it gives a +3 to all charisma-based checks (including Use Magic Device) make it really potent with my playstyle (I'm not quite going full Diplomancer, but you better believe that I have a ridiculous modifier to that skill). Not to mention the fact that it buffs a few extra skills that it wouldn't otherwise due to Versatile Performance (if I got the circlet, at level 6, I would go from having a +0 in Sense Motive to a +15 due to using Perform (sing) with Versatile Performance). That said, even if the price is along the lines of what he's given to other players as rewards, even my lowered level of character optimization would potentially turn that into a Game-Breaker for this campaign.

@1209 I hadn't... after taking a quick look, I'm not sure if that would be all that useful for me. Two of the three effects are based on using Aid Another in combat, which can only be done at melee (I'm an archer that hides behind summons and the fighter). Effectively getting splash damage on my arrows is neat, but I'm not sure if that's the best use of my abilities and resources.

Hmmmm. Just wondering: are you using an archetype?

No archetypes - the build is purely Core Rulebook material (the GM in question is running his very first game, and I agreed to keep it simple so as to not overwhelm him with fiddly bits).

I'm not a very good judge of these things, but if your focus is on healing and summons, you probably don't need to boost your DCs that much, so the circlet of persuasion sounds good. (Assuming you have limitations of CL 5th and approx. 5000 GP - not familiar with WBL.)

Well, for wealth overall, my character is a bit poor due to being the one who expended the most in the last session, but that will be made up somewhere.

CL of the item isn't as important at this time; the cost of the item is more of the issue. The fanciest item anyone else has is the dusty rose prism ioun stone, which is worth 5,000 gp. The suggestion is that should be about the limit of what I ask for, though.

As a side note, rings are probably not the way to go; my character is probably going to take Forge Ring for his next feat (it fits both character-wise and story-wise; plus, since this game involves a couple newbies, it'll show them item creation rules without them getting bogged down by them). It'd be silly to ask for a ring of protection +1 when I'll be very shortly able to churn those out (did they make the item creation rules easier in Pathfinder, or has it just been that long since I tried in 3.5?).

They did make the iten creation slightly better in PF than lets say 3.5 as they used to require you spending your characters XP which would upset any caster thinking to take the feat. Actually I dont think in 3.5 my group ever took the feat as a result, meanwhile in PF almost every party I have been a part of has taken it atleast once.

There are also rules for merging effects for magic items which are in simple are: Expensive Magic item price + (Cheaper magic item price * 1.5) = New price; unless a magic item merging the two already exists with a different cost.

Yeah the CL of magic items is largely irrellivent unless someone is trying to dispel or destroy them if you have a really good spellcraft check for the crafting. The DC for crafting of coruse being 5 + Caster Level and normally unless you are craftign in a volcano or during a riot you can likely take 10. If you dont meet the prerequisite for crafting the item such as knowing a certain spell, then you can add a stacking +5 to the DC for each one you dont meet.

edited 17th Mar '15 2:33:40 AM by darkdestinysoul

Gentlemen, I have read this: Serene Barbarian.

I have read this under the influence of having watched the last Hobbit movie recently. The intent was to find some Dwarf-y classes/builds for an Elf character, and some Elf-y classes/builds for a Dwarf character. This archetype, while not very Elfy or Dwarfy inherently, is interesting on it's own, but feels very much like it's lacking something. What would you suggest? Comments under the article talked about basing the "clarity" duration on Wisdom instead of Constitution, and about some alignment tweaks for possible synergy with Monk-type classes. As for myself, I thought of that feat which adds Dex do damage instead of Str when using Finesse-able weapons.

<ahem>

In my original search, I've found a Barbarian archetype which uses two-handed and over-sized weapons as a gimmick, and a Fighter archetype for two-handed weapons which could look good on a Bull Rush Hammer playstyle. Those both would fit a "brutish Elf"; while the two-weapon-fighting Fighter archetype seemed lackluster for the "elegance Dwarf" character.

edited 18th Mar '15 9:50:55 AM by TheNobody

Hmm, how many people here live near GMT +2 timezone?

I'm getting kinda bored of our group having hiatus again, so I was thinking that maybe its time to try out roll20 stuff :p Problem of course being that I don't know people who live in this timezone(or at least nocturnal lifestyle) who would be interested

edited 20th Mar '15 3:14:46 AM by SpookyMask

Whoa, you're way off from me - I'm GMT -5. Good luck with that - one of my groups contains someone on GMT and another with someone at GMT -8, so coordinating game is... interesting.

Yup, thats the problem with most of English speaking people in Internet apparently living in America instead of Europe.

Thats why I said nocturnal people would be okay too since I don't think there are many gmt +2 people here...

I'm one of those GMT +2 people.

I'm in GMT +2.

We should play Ponyfinder.

Yes! Ponyfinder is awesome.

Though already running one of those games, between that and work, not a lot of free time to get into another one.

Not really into MLP conversions though Both from player and gm perspective, I don't really feel inspired from idea

Huh... Actually, that pretty much applies to all tv show/video game/anime/cartoon/comic/whatever conversions, I don't feel excited idea of say pokemon or avatar conversion either nor even official licensed products like Star Wars rpg or stuff. Dunno why now that I think about it. Maybe I'd need something to get myself into mood for those... *shrugs*

edited 21st Mar '15 8:09:04 AM by SpookyMask

It's pretty light on the MLP stuff. Just the general idea, but adds a whole lot of original stuff as well. And it has a lot of really amazing ideas in it. As well as races, archetypes, just a lot to love regardless of the MLP part.

And gave me my favorite race/class combo ever. Unicorn Magus. All thanks to Unicorns getting a bonus to Int, being pretty much set up as a caster race 9While still able to be a non-caster just fine) and getting a feat that allows them to use their Int score for melee attack/damage rolls, instead of their STR score.

Plus a pony archtype that gets some pretty useful features. Like the ability to spend an AP point to strike with a melee attack, as a ranged attack up to 30 feet. only tradeoff for the archtypes abilities, is it slows armor usage. No armor at first, then upgrade to light, then medium when you would normally go to Medium/Heavy.

Aaaaand thats second reason I'm not really interested in Ponyfinder stuff, I'm in general not interested in 3rd party crunch stuff There is already ton of stuff to remember without adding third party stuff to mix

Also, note, if you try to sell crunch to me with "It allows me create really powerful builds!" that doesn't excite me. I get it that the feat you described is basically weapon finesse, except with int and damage roll instead of the roll that determines whether attack hits, but weapon finesse is flavor wise about being skillful weapon user instead of brute strength. What is supposed to be flavor of "I can do more damage with high intelligence"?...

Plus I don't really have that much money <_< Not sure if there is free version of it, but I'm still not enough interested in Ponyfinder rule or setting/fluffwise to start reading it from what tv tropes page says.

edited 21st Mar '15 10:28:39 AM by SpookyMask