Women's Issues

There's legal precedent for that, though. If you commit a crime, and someone dies as a result of that crime, then you can be charged with manslaughter. Using cocaine is illegal, so if they can prove that this woman's cocaine use caused the baby's death, they've got a pretty good case.

If it was any other state I would at least be considering investigating the other side.

But this is Mississippi going against a black teen mom...

Nope. Not buying they didn't have shady motives.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

Sure but as the autopsy appears to have ignored the umbilical cord wrapped around the baby's throat and gone strait to "it must have been the mum doing drugs" I'm gonna go ahead and say they have iffy motives.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran

Raven's got a point; if your behavior leads to the death of another person you can be charged with a crime so the State does have legal precedent on its side. That being said however, I'm going to go with the "shady motives" crowd on this one. Mississippi doesn't exactly have an exemplary record in the race department. This stinks.

If I were to write some of the strange things that come under my eyes they would not be believed. ~Cora M. Strayer~

This is blatantly "shady motives."

Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.

Also, some of the other ones like "falling down the stairs by accident" and "failed suicide" aren't exactly crimes. One of those is an accident and one of them is mental illness.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

I thought suicide was illegal?

Not in the US.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

Depending on your state Attempted suicide may be illegal.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

And even if you do it right, most places screw over the people left behind to posthumously punish you.

...everyone involved in this case is a douche.

The mom is a douche for smoking crack during her pregnancy. The doctor is a douche for ignoring the umbilical cord and jumping straight to murder. The legal department is a douche for even considering trying a mother for murder because she gave birth to a stillborn child.

This entire fiasco is just...dumb. The only thing keeping me from uttering the Eight Deadly Words on this bad comedy sketch of a case is the fact that a teenage girl's entire future is on the line.

This is true. The law can get surprisingly petty in tragic ways when robbed of it's chance to nail a perpetrator. Our legal system has some issues with classic schoolyard retribution, ie. "Someone has hurt me, and I will not be satisfied until I find a way to hurt them back!" Sometimes vengeance is warranted. Sometimes it's just bullying.

edited 25th Mar '14 8:40:57 AM by TobiasDrake

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The mom has already been punished enough. Let it go.

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

I desperately do not want a legal precedent that stillborn births are murder to be set. That's not going to go anywhere good, and it's just a short jump from there to illegalizing abortion too.

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I just got back from volunteering at this dinner fundraiser for the Carenet pregnancy center of southern Maryland. At the dinner , there was an apologist named Scott Klusendorf. He gave a 75 min speech on why abortion is wrong. One of the analogies he used was "if you take a picture if a black jaguar , which is very rare, with a Polaroid camera, then someone comes up and tears it apart before the picture develops, and then claims that it wasn't there and was just a brown spot, you know they're wrong, becaus it was there!" .

For clarification, I needed to volunteer at this to get my last required hours for NHS membership

edited 27th Mar '14 6:40:44 PM by Xopher001

The flaw with that logic, is it would be you tearing up your own picture, not some one else.

You may have had many reasons to tear it up, but its not any ones place to ask why.

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Edit : Better comparision since that one is flawed.

There is a two person dev team, they say there going to make a game, it has the potential to be the greatest game ever.

Are they obligated to finish and release it?

Not really.

edited 27th Mar '14 10:04:57 PM by Imca

I think their point was that, if tearing up a photograph that's in the process of developing is as bad as tearing up a developed photograph, then killing a person who's in the process of developing is as bad as killing a fully grown person.

The difference being that photographers have the right to tear up their own photographs, while mothers generally don't have the right to kill their children.

edited 27th Mar '14 10:05:53 PM by RavenWilder

Which is why I changed it to game dev, it better fits the cycle.

What is cancled was never a compleated game, but rather a bundle of game assets, it is not compleated until the developer puts in alot of effort, time and work. Most of the time even after it is "finished"

Where as a undeveloped photograph is mostly completed and takes minimal effort to develop....

also its your photo, if you want to shread the unfinished copy it is not bad in the first place, it would only be bad if you broke into an artmuseum and shreaded it there.

That comparison compleatly forgets the transfer of who's object it is.

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Edit : More elaboration since english is failing me.

An entity can not have ownership of itself until it is sapient, babies are sapient, a mass of cells without a nervous system is not, cells that are not even autonomous like bacteria I should add.

These comparisions should reflect that, there is a transfer of ownership in the process when a baby becomes sentient, or atlast has a nervous system and thus the capacity to feel, it gains ownership of itself.

This happens somewhere after the end of the first trimester, and there is no way your getting an abortian in a develeped country past that point legaly any way.

Ever wonder why they always use heartbeat for pro-life? Its because the nervous system, the part of you that makes you you, develops rather late.

edited 27th Mar '14 10:22:01 PM by Imca

If you are getting an abortion after the first trimester in a developed country it's generally because something has gone horribly wrong the pregnancy is threatening the life of the mother.

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick

This

"Psssh. Even if you could catch a miracle on a picture any person would probably delete it to make space for more porn." - Aszur

I should also add that the guy mentioned Peter Singer, specifically how he said that since newborn babies aren't self aware they can be killed for a month after they're born

of course they never actually discussed that.

edited 28th Mar '14 3:50:13 AM by Xopher001

It's a real shame that "endangered life" abortions don't get more coverage. I remember reading about Partial Birth Abortions, which were late-term abortions done when the mother was in danger, and they were able to ban it by passing around pictures of the mangled results.

Or something like that, my memory is not the best about it.

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I doubt any of my classmates, or at least most of them or any of my theo teachers are even aware if them. If like someone to counter the point the guy was trying to make about Peter Singer

And yeah looking it up "partial birth abortions " are done primarily to prevent mortality or mordid results on the mothers side, quoth the British gynecological society, sic. They don't even call them that, it's a political term used by pro lifers

edited 28th Mar '14 11:26:41 AM by Xopher001

In those cases, I'm not quite sure how they expect the baby to survive if the mother doesn't. Since that's basically what it's about. Saving a life. Unless perhaps if it's late enough that the baby could survive a birth, but then I'd assume they'd try that.

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As someone who is pretty Pro-life, that kind of situation is one of the few cases where I support abortion.

edited 28th Mar '14 1:44:29 PM by SaintDeltora

"Please crush me with your heels Esdeath-sama!

Well supporting abortion to save the mother's life is a pro-life stance. It's a stance that says, we can't save them both, so let's save the one we can save instead of throwing both lives away. How can you get more pro-life than that?

Reality is that, which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. -Philip K. Dick