The philosophy thread general discussion

... The only way to do that is social isolation. <_< And, I don't recommend becoming a Wild Child.

And, even then... it doesn't quite work. We're hardwired to look for social give-and-take. Which means we come with numerous basic tools to plug ourselves into groups. Not all of which will be dysfunctional enough in any individual to disable the whole "group mentality" instinct. <_<

It's hard to be a loud and proud individualist... when you've got very few people to compare yourself with and notify of the fact that You Are Doing You. :/ After all, to do that, you need a relatively regularly updated mental model of a group you're not conforming with to... keep not conforming with them. Should your model slip from reality too far: welcome to dissociative delusion land, population you.

edited 7th Sep '16 12:58:26 PM by Euodiachloris

Have you considered that deliberately stacking the odds for the occurrence of a prison riot in order to somehow discredit for-profit prisons being unpalatable isn't due to an echo chamber mentality but due to concerns about the welfare of those already imprisoned due to disproportionate punishments?

I have disagreed with her a lot, but comparing her to republicans and propagandists of dictatorships is really low. - An idiot

I can't tell whether or not you meant to post this in the Politics thread.

Sounds like a plan. Like I said, better to embrace my own madness than the madness of the crowd. And besides, I don't think it's that impossible of an undertaking. Maybe impossible in absolute terms, but I think there is a discernable threshold at least for going blue & orange just enough to be a man apart and yet sane/wise enough not to get locked up from lack of impulse control.

edited 7th Sep '16 1:10:59 PM by nervmeister

You mean your family, friends, your colleagues (wherever and whatever they may be), the person behind the counter at the convenience store?

---

Sounds like a fast route to a mental health unit.

edited 7th Sep '16 1:09:04 PM by Greenmantle

Keep Rolling On

It's not impossible to achieve that state of mind, anything is possible given enough time and effort, but I don't think it would be a very successful strategy. In the competition over scarce resources, there is a huge advantage in numbers. You would literally be a citizen of no country, protected by no laws. No matter how smart or tough you are, any gang could take you. And no one would share with you, because they would not feel that they could trust you.

If you don't belong somewhere, you're basically powerless

edited 7th Sep '16 1:12:00 PM by DeMarquis

Almost every time you hear about someone who's convinced themselves that they don't need human socialization or the structures of society, it's because they've gone crazy and started doing some really bizarre stuff. Human minds aren't built to handle isolation.

If you believe that you're that rare one-in-a-thousand who can live a life of asceticism atop the mountain without severe psychological damage, you are 99.9% likely to be wrong.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

Not so sure about that, but I will agree that if you try to hold yourself totally aloof, you will eventually be taken advantage of.

I'm taking a more general approach. If you believe that you are a Special Snowflake who's got the gumption to defy the basic nature of humanity, you are wrong by simple probability.

Most of us spend our youth imagining that we are extraordinary only to discover that we are as human as everybody else. This doesn't have to be a disappointing realization; it can be a profoundly liberating experience, because you can free yourself of the expectation that you're a failure if you aren't superhuman. You are then able to concentrate on what does make you special, or at least happy.

In an ironic way, the "special snowflake" idea is a part of our very social conditioning. We're taught to idolize the outliers: the amazingly successful, the amazingly smart, the super-talented, the rebels. When kids are asked what they want to be when they grow up, they don't answer "fast food cashier" or "garage mechanic", despite the fact that these are far more likely careers than "astronaut" or "president".

Happiness is found in being who you are, not who society has conditioned you to expect yourself to be. If that means being a herd animal who needs human company to feel rewarded and enjoys junk food and porn, so be it.

edited 7th Sep '16 1:22:56 PM by Fighteer

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

What if you're gay, and you've lived among a family of fundamentalists who insulated you in their groupthink for so long that the very idea of giving in to an inherent quality about yourself is enough to make you hate yourself? Still think keeping of the love of your parents and siblings is worth it?

Fair point. If rebelling against the norm becomes "fashionable" in society, then it ironically becomes conformity.

edited 7th Sep '16 1:27:04 PM by nervmeister

The problem there is the group you're in, not you. Such people tend to grow up with intense self-loathing even if they break free, because they internalize the messages they hear. This is basic human psychology; you can't "Nietzche" yourself out of it with positive thinking.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

You're right. Positive thinking or saying nice things to yourself in your head barely does anything, as I can personally attest to. Instead, I recently took a new approach: focusing to the point of immersion on any one or set of physical sensations, particularly those associated with certain harsher emotions. It's less about trying to escape negative feelings and instead looking at them dead in the eye, welcoming them, and making peace with them. It's super effective.

edited 7th Sep '16 6:51:28 PM by nervmeister

This thread just turned dark. Allow me to put in a good word for most families, support networks, and positive self-regard.

I wouldn't say it's dark. Radical, maybe, but overall positive.

Those on the front lines of psychiatric services would wholeheartedly argue otherwise.

They see the fallout on a daily basis. :/

How is it positive?

Keep Rolling On

It's about coming to terms with the darker, more wanton, primordial version of yourself that you've up until now been averting your gaze from in shame (or terror). It's so you can disillusion yourself enough to avoid getting strung along by people who merely think they have your best interests at heart. You dont necessarily have to act on that oft neglected part of yourself. You only have to be intimate with it. Affectionate even. What's more, it helps your mood.

edited 8th Sep '16 12:57:01 PM by nervmeister

You don't want to go there. You don't. Seriously. That way leads to Involuntary Commitment to a Mental Unit^note  I've never been there myself but...that's seriously Triggering.

Keep Rolling On

It's a form of inner reflection designed to put you more at peace with yourself as the sum of your parts (Warts and All) . Not some wacko chaos ritual.

edited 8th Sep '16 2:56:56 PM by nervmeister

Im aware of no scientific evidence in favor of a more primitive, primordial version of the self. I think that's mostly a popular myth with historical roots in a discredited form of Freudian psychoanalysis.

I was feeling especially smug the other day. Let me put it another way then: completely acknowledge and embrace any and all uncomfortable emotions the moment they flare up instead of trying to distract yourself from them with whatever inner dialogue or external pleasures you normally turn to for comfort.

edited 10th Sep '16 7:10:37 PM by nervmeister

I agree that it is important not to be afraid of your own fears. Many people seem almost phobic about psychological discomfort. It is almost as if they feel incapable of dealing with emotional challenges on their own and turn to external sources of reassurance instead. That's why certain people turn to individuals like Trump, he represents a savior figure who offers simple solutions to complex problems. Maybe that's the kind of thing you meant by the "Madness of crowds"?

Pretty much. It's essentially a method to soothe the "old itch" of tribalism.

This seems like a fun thread.

Fear is something that has to be confronted. It is how a person becomes brave.

Please allow me to introduce myself, I am a man of wealth and taste. Nice to meet you, hope you can guess my name.

@De Marquis

Freudian Psychology has been discredited but where does Jungian Psychology come in?

"We are just like Irregular Data. And that applies to you too, Ri CO. And as for you, Player... your job is to correct Irregular Data."

Bunk.

Hume and cognitive science for the win.

edited 11th Sep '16 6:38:00 PM by Euodiachloris