Jade Empire

There is one Closed Fist option that adheres to what the system is supposed to be - you give a slave girl a knife and tell her to fight her own way out.

And then she kills the slaving bastard.

I love that option.

There are a couple of other cases where Closed Fist is shown positively.

First is between an old master and his student playing a board game via memory at that port town that's suffering a drought: the master portrays Closed Fist as being more pragmatic and letting people's harsh experiences make them stronger and wiser.

The second is regarding the master of a dojo whose fighting school and it's martial art technique is in need of an evolution, but his students are too focused upon copying and obeying his teachings to the letter to attempt any changes.... except for one. Problem is, that one ambitious student happens to be a total douchebag willing to kill any "weak" students, so that pretty much makes him a terrible choice. So you can either do the nice thing and let the school stagnate over the long run, or let the new guy push it in a new direction, but at the cost of the school becoming a lot more ruthless and unfriendly to newbies.

BW is better at moral ambiguity than some give them credit for. They're not great but pretty much none of the choices in ME 2 or 3 are LOL Evil.

Same for Dragon Age. It was mostly KOTOR which pandered to Stupid Evil players.

Also I'm not reading any of these posts. I already got spoiled about the slave girl, I want the other choices to be a surprise.

edited 17th Oct '15 12:22:22 PM by Nikkolas

Yeah, they get kinda more nuanced in ME 2 and 3. A far cry from "You refused to testify, so obviously you hate justice and deserve this." in ME 1.

I chose Fire because why not.

Master Li is striking me as a lot shadier than he first seemed. In spite of his claim of a sudden burst of conscience as the Empire marched on my home, he seems entirely too...callous. It's like, "Dawn Star was kidnapped? This is an excellent test for your abilities!" Maybe Gao wasn't so incorrect in how he doted on me to the detriment of others. Also his constant questioning about what I learned and what I know now felt suspicious.

Not sure what to make of Sagacious Zu yet At least he's honest about being dishonest.

I killed Gao's mercenary. "I only kidnapped one girl" isn't a defense, sir. That one girl's life means more than your own.

Oh no, my school and friends! Who could have seen this coming? Also what does this count as, magicpunk? They got goddam planes?

Death's Hand, huh? Evil magical adviser to the king who is apparently sabotaging the natural flow of spirits and life. Wonder if it's intentional or a side-effect of whatever nefarious deeds he's up to.

Way to leave your students to die, Master LI. I'm really quite suspicious of you now, old man. Zu is right that these tactical blunders don't really fit the "Strategist." Apparently he left his family to die, too.

I killed the one eImperial soldier who had some story about being forcibly conscripted. He fought pretty well considering he said he was no soldier. Regardless, he served my enemy.

So Zu and Hui saved Dawn Star I take it. No idea why though, dunno what his connection to her is.

This game has some great comedy. I neglected to mention earlier about the one guy and his "precious" who was his ox. The fact the bandits made off with his wife was a lesser concern. And speaking of wives, I helped this lady in Tien's Landing get hitched. Got her to marry some simple farm boy.

I let teh ghos tkids kill the old man. He didn't seem like he was living for much anyway.

Did I really get Open Palm Points for working with Forest Shadow? I mean...I suppose just killing her would be the more expedient route but fuck, it's the choice between a cannibal demon polluting the land and the fox spirit. It's not even really a choice. Do you want to be Evil? Yes/No?

I love Drunken Master styles in stuff but if it means I have to use just that one follower, fuck it. I want Followers who make sense for story and so far that's Dawn Star and Zu.

Celestial Bureaucracy? And now I have a living embodiment of that in this merchant guy who was apparently supposed to calculate all the destruction I leave. What a weird little cosmology but I like it. I guess my intended goal is to help this Water Dragon lady but my PC is really just trying to figure out what's going on. There are too many mysteiies . I hate mysteries.

You don't hear Cam Clarke doing enough voicework. I like Skye if for no other reason than his VA.

I had Fuyao kill the slaver herself. It's a valuable life lesson, one she never would have learned if I just freed her and let her walk away. If you value your freedom, you must be able to defend it.

Met Bladed Thesis. Obviously the bandit deserved to die, wasting his time on sadistic games and showing off. Also let the scholar die. He was the embodiment of Too Dumb to Live.

I like the Way of the Closed Fist and after what has happened to her, I think it makes sense for Meloda - my PC - to like it as well. Lot of good the Way of the Open Palm did my school. If frickin' Gao can kill the other students in one hit, the school clearly wasn't doing its job well. In the end, the Closed Fist preaches self-reliance and that is the lesson she had to learn in a hurry.

Anyway, about to head off to the Imperial City. I have quite the colorful group already. Of my new companions, I like Wild Flower most and not just because she is a godsend in fights and lets me not waste Chi or time on healing. She's intriguing, what with the relationship between her, the Guardian and this "Other." She also has plot importance I think and that's another reason I'm happy to have her as my primary follower. I sincerely doubt I'll ever use Black Whirlwind or the drunk guy.

I wonder when I'll see Silk Fox again and what her deal is.

Overall I''m having a lot of fun. So many mysteries. Was my master as honorable as he tried to appear? The Water Dragon made him sound even more suspicious with one of her cryptic messages. I've been misled in some way, or him taking me was not just an accident or spur of the moment act from a guilty conscience. That old man is up to something.

Jade Empire is an absolutely beautiful game. First played it almost 6 years ago and still return to it from time to time. Such a shame that Bioware never continued that franchise (and I doubt they ever will).

edited 17th Oct '15 4:13:08 PM by Forenperser

I remember one quest that played out rather oddly for me, in how the game treated my ethical choices.

It's the one where a woman asks you to find out why her fiancé is harassed by thugs. I found out who it was and why, and then gave an ultimatum to them to stay off him. Fight starts, I kill them. Then the woman refuses to take him back and I get closed fist points.

It was rather odd to me because it seemed I was taking the lawful good route by not giving in to a bunch of thugs. I wanted them to cease their crimes before I set about fixing their grievance. So it struck me as odd that it came to a bad result.

Aside from that, the system doesn't live up to what Smiling Mountain described. Closed Fist is to seldom any different from just plain evil.

I liked it despite very frustrating glitches, the story has good twists and it feels different from the ubiquitous medieval fantasy. The flying machines really didn't fit though.

And it's a rare RPG where I decided to play as a boy. The girls' outfits are just ridiculous. Sure the other half are equally revealing, but they look like real period clothes and not like modern beach wear.

Well, Silk Fox's identity was spelled out much sooner than I expected. Although her goals seem clear, I'm not totally trusting of her yet.

So I was about to announce I want to go back in time and kill all British people and destroy all muskets until I remembered Focus. I never use it but by god it turned an impossible fight into a pretty simple one. Yay for slowing down time.

Had my first real bit of gameplay frustration. I couldn't win the Arena Gauntlet and then I also kept getting my ass handed to me by the two Golems and the Assassins right before Jia. So many deaths. Jade Golem thugh is indeed awesome and helped me win the gauntlet no problem. I don't plan to use it a lot...this was a specialcircumstance. After all those deaths, i was tired of this crap.

Zu was a cool guy, very wily. I'll miss him.

The princess is a ruthless sort, isn't she. Hardly some delicate flower. She seemed very willing for us to just kill some of the slaves and have done with it. I like her though. She's a lot like my PC. Actually, now I think on it, is there a title or name for he Jade Empire playable character? You know like "The Warden" or "The Nameless One"?

I'm stopping for tonight though, now all that is over and done with. All the deaths got me tired out and very frustrated. I just want to go to bed.

P.S.

While it's roughly equivalent, I found the Sith Temple section from KOTOR better than the Lotus Assassin Temple stuff. The Sith managed to be more...charismatic. The Assassins also aren't very good at the LN, thing. They profess absolute obedience and loyalty but the whole quest ended up being hijacked by petty politics. At least the Sith were honest.

Oh and I got the second of the Iron Palm things and I have one Viper thing. Should I make sure to get all of those? Are they really good styles?

edited 18th Oct '15 3:41:05 AM by Nikkolas

The one style you're really gonna need later one I believe is called Storm Shadow, or Storm-something... I forgot it's name. It doesn't do damage directly, but the longevity of the stun effect caused by each hit is something that will come in VERY handy during some of the later boss fights. And since you've gotten Mirabelle already, you've got most of the necessary combat forms to survive. Now it's just about finding the best possible gems and buffing up the styles you already have.

Storm Dragon. It incapicates foes with electric shocks and can even do direct damage with Chi Strikes.

The PC of Jade Empire is generally called the Spirit Monk.

Could someone take a look at our article on the game? The description is too long, focusing too much on the early plot and not enough on the style. I have to go now but I'll look at it more tomorrow.

We're all waiting for you to hit the Wham Line, Nikkolas.

(evil grin)

edited 18th Oct '15 9:16:32 PM by AnotherGuy

Unfortunately a couple things have happened.

1. My USB cable broke which means I have no way to play the game unless I want to use keyboard. I do not want to use keyboard. I hope to get a USB cable soon as in today or tomorrow.

2. I've had it spoiled to me that Li is at least a villain. Dunno if he's the main villain.

I'm annoyed but it's not that shocking. His callousness and the Water Dragon's more clear comments made it clear he was not as altruistic as he claimed. But I do kind of hope there are good explanations for all of this and more twists to come. I don't know how much game is left.

There's still the Wham Line.

Well yeah, context is key. I still don't have any more of a clue what's going on or what the ultimate plan here is. Believe me, my interest in the game is still very high.

I've always found it harder to RP in these older games because they give you a lot less to work with than DA or ME but I really want to make an attempt at explaining my character here because this game is awesome and deserves nothing less.

Given the constant mention of twenty years ago, the Last Spirit Monk - my Melodia - must be about 21. I'd prefer to say she's self-confident rather than arrogant. Consider it the difference between someone like Zu and someone like Gao. She knows she's good but doesn't need to show it off or brag. It's only natural to have a sense of high sense of self-worth, being the best student at Two Rivers, as well as having all of Master Li's attention. Let's just say all of this seemed to be validated when she was informed of her destiny by all these powerful entities.

She's not malicious or harsh. She's more...indifferent to the plights of strangers. You can't save everyone. She had that lesson drilled into her straight away with the fate of Two Rivers. There's a line in Final Fantasy X that I think accurately sums her up. "If you want everything, you'll end up with nothing." Other people and their lives are mostly a meands to an end. What Melodia wants is to discover what the hell is going on and to protect those she holds dear. As I said earlier, Dawn Star is like a little sister.

I will admit though, in her travels, Dawn Star's status as "little sister" has grown more pronounced. My Spirit Monk thinks her a bit too naive and simple-minded for what must be done. It's sweet and endearing but I've heard more than my share of objections from her on things and I tend to ignore them. The companions she feels closest to are Zu and Silk Fox. They both have a clarity of focus and purpose. They are perfectly right to say "do we have time for this?" when you do side stuff. Believe me, I'm not doing it t be some Good Samaritan. I just need the rewards to help me further my mission. Melodia never loses sight of her main objective.

I don't really care about Black Whirlwind, although the Arena subplot seemed to want me to. I was perfectly okay with working with the Serpent until BW ruined that. But what's done is done and so I let BW kill him. Neither of them matter much to me. BW earned my ire when he attacked me without cause. Such things are not easily forgiven, if they are forgiven at all.

In terms of specific things I'm interested in...

1. I want to learn more about this Wall. I dunno if it's relevant but it seems like it's important. Is it like an ASOIAF Wall? Keeping out monsters and barbarians?

2. Romancing Silk Fox. I haven' t seen any indication of how to start that. Don't tell me, I'll just keep an eye out.

edited 20th Oct '15 7:26:09 PM by Nikkolas

The romances don't have the same obvious STARTING ROMANCE NOW!!!! flags that, say, Mass Effect does. It's even harder to do the gay romances.

Typically that is how romances start. Somebody has to make the first move.

I'll just keep talking to Silk Fox every chance I get and see where it leads me.

Also I know I keep accidentally calling her Silver Fox. I don't know why.

Uhhhhh...

I for some reason at first thought of Gray Fox from MG when you said Silver Fox <_< Remembered name wrong

Anyway, am I only one who finds it disturbing that you like LN because it means you would let people die just because you are supposed to?

I like LN for a lot of reasons. To just look at that specific part of it, I would say it's less "let people die because you are supposed to" and more like following a chosen path and never wavering from it. The LN character upholds a code of conduct and does not let themselves be swayed by personal feelings. Whereas other alignments are all about selfish wants - even if they are selfish insofar as "I think this is wrong and my opinion is more important then the law" - the Lawful Neutral character puts absolute faith in something higher than themselves.

Wanting to help people is selfish? .-.

LN the way you are describing comes across as "Mindlessly doing what someone told you to do without thinking about why".

Plus if you want to argue that all other "alignments" are selfish, isn't it also "selfish" to avoid responsibility for your actions by following law or "code of conduct" instead of choosing for yourself? :p

Wanting to help people can definitely be selfish, if it's about making yourself feel or seem important rather than the benefit to the person being helped.

can be is different than is xD Especially if implication is that LN can't be selfish.