Fallout 4

Yeah. Until all the Ms. Nice Girl shit stops once you get into Nuka World and find out it's way better and cooler to be a Raider Overboss. Which is hands down the best thing Bethesda's written under the envelope of Fallout 4. You get to say it like it is to Preston Garvey as well, which is a bit of a Brucie Bonus as they say on this side of the Pond - like, mess with me and I will end you - which Garvey knows is true since he's usually seen you tank a fully intact Deathclaw.

The only problem is, apart from that thing with Garvey, is that Nuka World doesn't really fit into the overall story of Fallout 4 at all. Why would you need the Brotherhood, the Institute or the Railroad when you've got the biggest gang in the Boston Wasteland, and certainly one of the best equipped? If you really couldn't care less about finding your kid, and by what I've read about the game online, there's lots of folks who don't, or even better, you really couldn't care less about the settlement building thing that Garvey forces you into - including fighting a Mirelurk Queen who at the time in the game you usually are is an absolute nightmare to beat, why bother doing any of that stuff? Especially since what you do in the park itself is far more engaging.

It's a DLC full of tonal dissonance.

It really should have been a stand-alone game, along with Far Harbor, which also in my opinion is better written and plotted than the main storyline in 4.

I mean, I cared about my kid just like I cared about my dad. But then shit happens. A lot of it. You can only keep up the energy for so long. You start meeting cool people and going to interesting places, ya know? My Sole Survivor was perfectly happy to be a wandering mercenary with Cait. My son and "settling the wasteland" were not important goals whatsoever.

It's just unavoidable. This is not a writing quality issue, even. I don't know anybody who gave a fuck about getting revenge on Benny. Finding son, dad or attempted murderer is just a launch point that people quickly forget.

edited 25th Sep '17 2:57:50 PM by Nikkolas

The main quests are just guided tours. And not good ones. I tend to skip them.

Like, my current guy still has a wish to find his son, but he thinks he was asleep for a long time between the kidnapping and his actual awakening. He doesn't have hopes that he'll find the baby he lost. He was also in the army corp of engineers, and knows that the best way to win a war is to deny the enemy ground to stand on. So he's been building settlements up and outfitting provisioners to patrol the roads between them. Nation building is his aim. He'll simply expand his borders close to where he needs to go, so he never has to worry about enemies overwhelming him on his own.

I don't know. I know a lot of people were interested in the set up for New Vegas. And its a pretty GOOD set up too. That that's a set up that doesn't really get broken by you doing side quests or anything else in the game world. Its your own investigation.

I wanted to pursue the main quest but it is a little jarring how rapidly the Sole Survivor seems to forget all about his or her son until they stumble on someone relevant to that quest and suddenly get all weepy. Bethesda can't figure out tone for shit.

Really? My sole survivor never shut up about it. Like, the option to bring it up came up to just about every npc I talked to.

So I remember back when FO 4 came out there was talk of some DLC or further explanation of what happened to the old FO 3 Brotherhood. Specifically, what happened to Sarah Lyons that allowed this new lunatic to get into power.

Did that happen? I'd guess not. I know some fans were thinking the new guy just assassinated her or arranged her death somehow.

Well I've pretty vocally said that as far as I'm concerned, the Brotherhood is (oops, I meant to say "was") only ran by Maxson because the little shit had Sarah Lyons murdered. Officially she "died in action", but there are such things as Uriah Gambits, and we even have a trope about them. You have a death, you believe that it's a murder, you then have to look at who has most to gain, and did gain, by that murder. You then have your strongest possible suspect. That would be the bastard I put two hundred rounds of 5.56mm from a belt fed machine-gun into. AKA the former Elder Maxson. May he rot in pieces.

FO 3 Brotherhood, FO 4 Brotherhood and NV Brotherhood all walk into a bar....

That be entertaining.

I liked Sarah and the fact they apparently just wrote her off in such a lame way is pretty shit. At least establish it so she died for a reason, not just off-screen sudden sequel death syndrome so the FO 4 Brotherhood could return to their evil roots.

Or, hell, not even their evil roots. I made my initial lame joke because there is such a huge contrast between these three. None of them would get along.

There's still no actual evidence that he had her killed, the wasteland is a dangerous place and I find it perfectly plausible that her death was not due to conspiracy.

Yeah i don't much care for Maxson, but the idea that he arranged to kill his crush/surrogate mother figure before he was twelve seems way too unlikely to me.

I mean, honestly, if it weren't for the Lone Wanderer, Lyons probably would have died several times over.

And the BOS had several Elders inbetween the two Lyons and Maxson, they all just sucked.

I mean, Lyons barely survives her first encounter with you, only doing it because she :is essential the Lone Wanderer Intervenes.

Her second mission with the Lone Wanderer also can result in her near death if she turns on the Purifier.

Girl's not exactly invincible.

I'd argue the FO 4 and the NV Brotherhood would get along fine. The only real difference is the NV Brotherhood doesn't have the means to really stand up, so it stays hidden with its tail between its legs. Give it the Prydwynn and no shortage of knights and Paladins and equipment and Vertibirds, and you can be sure it'd be rather close to the FO 4 one.

Marxson's is more interventionist (And less secret cult-y, more Fascist), for sure, but it has the means to be.

edited 26th Sep '17 1:36:02 PM by Ghilz

You make a fair point that, if given the opportunity, the BOS would probably be more terrible than it is. Although I would have thought they learned after Elijah and the NCR debacle.

That plus Veronica's influence is kind of why I figured the Mojave Brotherhood might not be so bad.

It's not exactly unbelievable that someone who likes to lead from the front without a helmet might have gotten herself killed in action without some blimp-loving failure trying to arrange it.

Veronica has no influence. Her viewpoint is deeply unpopular and they send her to do supply runs so they don't have to deal with her.

The Brotherhood is, at its core, a deeply unpleasant organization that should be opposed on principle. Under Lyons, they averted this by more or less throwing the Codex out the window and just being knights in power armor. At best, any Codex-compliant chapter is a bunch of xenophobic isolationists, and at worst, only differs from common raiders in having power armor and lasers or essentially a fascist paramilitary organization that's Not So Different from the Enclave.

edited 26th Sep '17 1:58:26 PM by Balmung

Veronica has so little influence the Brotherhood Murders people she might speak with before she actually does.

It's worth remembering that Marxson's Brotherhood left before NCR kicked the West Coast Brotherhood out, so Marxson's Brotherhood doesn't really have the concept of an organized (human) foe who they can't just roll over. NV's brotherhood meanwhile has come to the realization they are not nearly as big shot as they thought they were, and are thus very cautious.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:02:05 PM by Ghilz

Wearing helmets is for losers. Joshua Graham didn't wear helmets. And does Lanius' mask count as a helmet or was it just to cover his face?

And I seem to recall the Elder in NV being reasonable and open to viewpoints like Veronica's. It was the Paladin you can replace him with that is too stuck in the old ways.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:01:47 PM by Nikkolas

Nope. They all are xenophobic. The Elder's willing to entertain the idea of an outsider proving himself, and will accept Veronica's word enough to not strap explosives on you. He's also willing to NOT banish her, but that's coz he's got a soft spot for her personally. That's about it.

The Paladin is just more militant, and Ironically, more like Marxson. While the Elder is at least willing to entertain diplomacy as a path to long term survival.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:05:08 PM by Ghilz

He's a xenophobic isolationist, while the alternative is a technoraider. He is, however, just pragmatic enough to be convinced that he cannot beat the NCR, while his more jingoistic counterpart thinks the BOS can go back to their glory days of mugging anyone with so much as a laser pistol without getting their shit wrecked.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:09:50 PM by Balmung

What's wrong with being a xenophobic isolationist? If a Brotherhood chapter wants to hold up in a bunker somewhere forever, who cares?

In a post-apocalyptic world, "not out there murdering people" makes you at the very least morally neutral in my eyes.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:11:51 PM by Nikkolas

Because they have resources they could be using to benefit the Greater Whole but they don't because they're fuckwits, I mean Xenophobic Isolationists.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:11:53 PM by Fourthspartan56

Also, they're dying out even outside of combat due to low birth rates and becoming increasingly inbred.

Their isolationism helps neither them nor the people of the wastes.

edited 26th Sep '17 2:16:09 PM by Balmung

Yeah, being xenophobic isolationists is better than being xenophobic imperialists, but it's still not exactly good. They could be helping people, but instead they're just holed up in their bunker waiting to die, only popping out occasionally to murder people who broke some law they never heard of.

Also, literally the only reason they're not out there murdering people is because they're scared of the NCR. Without being convinced to ally with the NCR, all their endings where they aren't already dead have them go back to slaughtering caravans for a single microfusion cell the moment the NCR is distracted and possibly being destroyed for doing so.

By most modern definitions, they'd probably be a terrorist organization in all non NCR ally endings.

Coz they can't? Their supplies won't last them forever - the bunker has no means of food production. What's gonna happen when they run out of food, and decide they are sitting on an arsenal of energy weapons and powered armor?

And that's without going on how half the people in the bunker have a grudge against the other half.

If the BOS wants to go out with a whimper instead of a bang, I am not complaining. I wiped them out anyway.

I hope it doesn't appear like I'm pro-Brotherhood. I just don't care about them, alive or dead. As long as they aren't killing people, they are meaningless to me.