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There was talk about renaming the Krugman thread for this purpose, but that seems to be going nowhere. Besides which, I feel the Krugman thread should be left to discuss Krugman while this thread can be used for more general economic discussion.

Discuss:

  • The merits of competing theories.
  • The role of the government in managing the economy.
  • The causes of and solutions to our current economic woes.
  • Comparisons between the economic systems of different countries.
  • Theoretical and existing alternatives to our current market system.

edited 17th Dec '12 10:58:52 AM by Topazan

tclittle Professional Forum Ninja from Somewhere Down in Texas Since: Apr, 2010
Professional Forum Ninja
#18426: Jun 19th 2018 at 4:12:53 PM

DOW Jones Industrial Average is kicking one of its founding members, General Electric, Co., off the index, being replaced by Walgreens Boots Alliance, Inc.

edited 19th Jun '18 4:13:23 PM by tclittle

"We're all paper, we're all scissors, we're all fightin' with our mirrors, scared we'll never find somebody to love."
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#18427: Jun 21st 2018 at 7:41:48 AM

[up]

I am becoming increasingly wary about the obviously overvalued stock markets in the USA, UK and some of the European countries. Quantitative Easing as a stimulus policy essentially equates to spraying a firehose through someone's letterbox and trying to fill up the bathtub of worker prosperity with it, you soak far too many other things with money before a trickle of money comes out of the stock market in the form of banker's wages and such and actually gets into the real economy. It's bubbalicious, and everyone's started to notice that the market is completely disconnected from what people actually experience. A lot of these big megacorps like Uber have never or very rarely actually made a profit, they survive on turnover and valuation increases.

On the upside, if it stays around for a while it might prevent pension funds from being even more decimated by long periods of low interest rates, despite the many many German savers losing what they thought was their god-given right to 4% interest.

I imagine there's a few betting men with shorts out on this, but market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent and all that.

TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#18428: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:37:44 AM

China, EU to form group to modernise global trade rules

Beijing: Europe and China will form a group aimed at updating global trade rules to address technology policy, government subsidies and other emerging complaints in a bid to preserve support for international commerce, the vice president of the European Union's governing body said Monday.

European Commission Vice President Jyrki Katainen said unilateral action by US President Donald Trump in disputes over steel, China's technology policy and other issues highlighted the need to modernise the World Trade Organisation to reflect developments in the world economy.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#18429: Jun 27th 2018 at 1:48:23 AM

Really hope the EU didn't let China have too much say in this. I know I've said this many times before, but the CCP are not interested in being anyone's friend.

Edited by M84 on Jun 27th 2018 at 4:48:07 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
TerminusEst from the Land of Winter and Stars Since: Feb, 2010
#18430: Jun 27th 2018 at 2:02:55 AM

It's not about friends, it's about that sweet, sweet money. Everybody knows China will cheat regardless of what happens.

Si Vis Pacem, Para Perkele
DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#18431: Jun 27th 2018 at 6:18:43 AM

[up][up][up]

The two biggest exporters in the world talking about trade? Come on, that's only ever going to produce recommendations to drop even more trade barriers and further restrict any capital controls, I expect nothing too radical.

CenturyEye Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign? from I don't know where the Yith sent me this time... Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
Tell Me, Have You Seen the Yellow Sign?
#18432: Sep 8th 2018 at 6:10:14 PM

‘Grocery wars’: How local stores are competing for your dollars to stay ahead of Amazon

     Grocier Wars 
Local grocery stores are racing to provide customers improved services and technology as more take advantage of online shopping.

It’s created a “grocery war” among the largest and smallest stores in an industry that produces $682 billion a year for local economies, according to the Food Market Institute. About 4.8 million people were employed by the industry in 2017.

Kroger, Dot’s Market, Meijer, Dorothy Lane Market, Aldi, Walmart and others already offer online shopping and home delivery in some areas, but industry experts say this won’t be enough if they want to compete with Amazon.

Since Amazon purchased Whole Foods for almost $14 billion in August 2017, there has been a major shake up in the grocery industry. Since then, the online giant has forced grocery stores to better their online products and services.

Online grocery shopping is expected to to top $100 billion in sales as early as 2022. While 60 percent of consumers currently prefer shopping in stores, about 70 percent of them are expected to purchase some grocery items online by that year.

Only 2 percent of grocery sales are currently online, but grocery analyst and former digital, supply chain and strategy consultant for Kroger, Brittain Ladd, expects that number to reach 20 percent by 2025.

...

Edited by CenturyEye on Sep 8th 2018 at 9:10:22 AM

Look with century eyes... With our backs to the arch And the wreck of our kind We will stare straight ahead For the rest of our lives
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#18433: Sep 9th 2018 at 6:45:25 AM

I've found this article on the Economist that seems to argue for the implementation of a land value tax, but strangely it seems to make a case that LVT would actually not be as strong a tax as it would have been in the 19th and 20th centuries, given that most wealth is now held in equities and not real estate.

The main premise of the article seems to be to use the LVT to deflate the real estate market and make housing more affordable for people now. Though that would be poltitcally unpopular to say the least.

     The time may be right for land-value taxes 
ON A trip to New York in the late 1860s the journalist Henry George was puzzled. He found the rapidly growing city to be a place of unimaginable wealth. Yet it also contained deeper poverty than the less-developed West Coast. How could this be? George had an epiphany. Too much of the wealth of New York was being extracted by landowners, who did nothing to contribute to the development of the city, but could extract its riches via rents. The problem could be solved by a tax on land values.

George’s subsequent masterpiece, “Progress and Poverty”, sold more copies in America in the 1890s than any other book except the Bible. It spawned campaigns for land-value taxation around the world. It also inspired a board game, “The Landlord’s Game”, a precursor to “Monopoly”. The game was designed to show how property markets naturally tend towards monopolies in which one player can extract all the rent. But an added feature, missing from subsequent versions, was a tax on the value of land—ie, a levy that, unlike a property tax, does not vary with the number of houses or hotels built on it. The tax made it impossible for any one player to win but instead made them rich in tandem, as the proceeds of the tax were distributed between them.

A land-value tax might seem like an enticing prospect to those harmed by high land values today. Unremitting demand in rich cities has sent land values in and around them soaring, after decades of falling interest rates. Plenty of poverty persists in these places. But the issue of high rents—and wealthy landlords—has renewed political bite because it is now affecting the relatively well off, too. Rent is so expensive in places such as San Francisco’s Bay Area that even technology workers earning hundreds of thousands of dollars a year complain that life there is unaffordable.

’twas God who made the land

Across the rich world a bitter generational divide has opened between homeowning baby-boomers and “generation rent”. Many older people have become rich as house prices have surged (see article). But most young people cannot hope to buy houses in places such as London, unless they benefit from a big inheritance. Because they assume house prices will go on rising, they feel they are missing a golden ticket to financial well-being, while landed oldies continue to enjoy the windfall of a property boom. The time seems ripe for a revival in Georgist thinking.

Taxes on land have long had a magnetic attraction for liberals and economists. Their appeal has two roots. The first is fairness. Every person, it is argued, has an equal moral claim to the fruits of the earth itself. In the history of political thought, even the fiercest advocates for property rights have struggled to justify how legitimate ownership of land could first come about, given that it deprives others of a natural resource. “God gave the land to the people,” goes “The Land”, a Georgist anthem adopted by Britain’s old Liberal Party that is still sung at the annual meeting of its successor, the Liberal Democrats.

The most famous attempt to justify land ownership was made by John Locke in the 17th century. He argued that because people own their own labour, toiling on the land confers ownership rights over the resulting product (a farm, say). Yet even Locke said this only works as long as there was “enough, and as good, left in common for others”. This proviso may be met in a wilderness but not in booming cities. In any case, such a combination seems a shaky justification for acquisition. Robert Nozick, a 20th-century libertarian philosopher, doubted whether pouring his can of tomato juice into the sea, combining the two, meant that he could then claim ownership over the ocean. Without a good basis for land ownership, how can it be fair for landlords to get rich from rent?

The second appealing feature of land-value taxes—and the one that entices economists—is their efficiency. Typically, taxing a good lowers supply and raises prices. Income taxes cause people to work less or exert less effort. Taxes on alcohol deter drinking. Taxing property values as a whole discourages development. But land is different. Its supply is fixed and cannot go away. As a result, as long as landlords are competing with each other for tenants—whose numbers and willingness-to-pay are unaffected—the tax cannot, in theory, be passed on through higher rents. Landlords must simply pay up and carry on as before. In 1978 this efficiency led Milton Friedman, a celebrated free-market economist, to declare a tax on the unimproved value of land “the least bad tax”.

So taken was George by the arguments for land taxation that he thought the state should confiscate all land rents. Nobody would be allowed to profit from land ownership. He thought this would raise enough revenue to all but abolish other taxes. His campaign for “the single tax” suited George who, like Friedman, advocated free trade and free markets throughout the rest of the economy.

No Georgist era

Yet despite George’s fame and influence, “Progress and Poverty” did not lead to widespread adoption of land taxes. In Britain a type of land tax was stripped from the radical “people’s budget”, passed in 1910 under a Liberal chancellor of the exchequer, David Lloyd George, after landowners in the House of Lords objected. In subsequent decades Georgist ideas were left behind on both sides of the Atlantic. The trade-union movement was more concerned with rights for workers than land rents. Policymakers focused on attacking excess profits accruing to shareholders, notably those arising from the market power of vast firms like Standard Oil.

After the second world war, reformers focused on building social-welfare programmes such as health-care and public-pension schemes. Land-value taxes rarely surfaced. Today, although most economists will acknowledge their efficiency, such taxes have been implemented only in a handful of places. The norm is a property tax, levied on the total value of the land plus what is built on it. Henry George is no longer a household name.

One reason is that land-value taxes are hard to implement. Land is difficult to value. Its price is not recognised directly when property is sold. It must be estimated by subtracting the value of the buildings from the sale price. Such a calculation is inevitably controversial, argues Paul Sanderson of the International Property Tax Institute, an advisory body. People would complain about a tax levied on a hypothetical number. Where possible, they would mount legal challenges against it.

A score of cities in Pennsylvania, where George was born, levy so-called split-rate property taxes. These involve one rate on building values and another, typically higher, on land. But valuation is done locally by “somebody’s Uncle Charlie” and systems are “primitive”, says Joshua Vincent of the Centre for the Study of Economics, a Georgist think-tank in Philadelphia. Mr Vincent was once asked to design a land tax based on valuations dating from 1957. Politicians do not like revaluations because they lead to higher tax bills and grumpy constituents. But arbitrary, decades-old valuations also make split-rate taxation a hard policy to sell.

The problem of valuation is not insurmountable. “I don’t think it’s a difficult task at all,” says Arthur Grimes of Victoria University of Wellington. New Zealand allows most local authorities to levy land-value taxes. Valuations are carried out every three years by the central government, which collects a vast array of data on the characteristics of every property, from when its roof was replaced to whether or not it has a sea view. This allows statisticians to predict land values to a high degree of accuracy, says Mr Grimes.

Opponents also raise questions about land-value taxes’ fairness and viability. First fairness. A land-value tax would not make much of a dent in wealth inequality. Matthew Rognlie, now of Northwestern University, showed in 2015 that the increase in capital’s share of national income in the latter half of the 20th century—lamented by Thomas Piketty in his book, “Capital in the Twenty-First Century”—has been driven by higher returns to housing. Yet while home ownership constitutes a big chunk of wealth for middle-class households it is far less important for richer ones, says Gabriel Zucman of the University of California, Berkeley, who is one of Mr Piketty’s co-authors (see chart 1). In America the top 0.1% holds four-fifths of its wealth in equities and bonds. Higher wealth inequality has little to do with housing, says Mr Zucman. The pattern is reflected elsewhere in the rich world.

Land ownership is less concentrated among a small number of wealthy landowners than it was in George’s day. That means a land-value tax would almost certainly be less progressive than modern income tax. Another change is that land constitutes less of the total stock of capital than it did at the end of the 19th century. In 2015 William Larson, a statistician in the Commerce Department, estimated that all the land in America was worth about $23trn in 2009 (160% of GDP). This compared with a total capital stock of about $45trn. Since then land has probably appreciated significantly. Yet even if the government were able to realise George’s dream and capture all this economic value, it would not be able to fund the government for very long after it had paid off the national debt.

Get off my property

As for effectiveness, there are several drawbacks. Voters dislike any sort of property tax. In California Proposition 13, a ballot measure passed in 1978, restricts taxes to 1% of a property’s value, and limits increases in the reassessment of a property’s value to 2% a year. Reassessments are also usually prohibited unless a property changes hands, creating a pernicious incentive for owners to stay put. In England and Scotland taxes on residential property are based on a valuation from 1991. Land-value taxes are common in Australia, but residential property is mostly exempt.

Sceptics argue that places with land-value taxes keep them low so that they do not attract political heat. New Zealand collects property taxes, including land taxes, totalling around 2% of its GDP, similar to the average in the OECD, a club mostly of rich countries. But America collects more property taxes (2.7% of GDP) and Britain much more (4.2%). Even in New Zealand, the recent trend has been for local authorities to increase the rate levied on buildings, and lower land taxes. In Denmark, another country with local land-value taxes, rates vary from 1.6% to 3.4%. It is a far cry from the single tax George wanted.

Opponents of high land-value taxes worry that homeowners who are rich on paper may not have large bank balances or incomes with which to pay another levy. Governments can get around this by letting landowners defer their tax bills until their property is sold, perhaps on death. Denmark is reforming its land tax to allow a deferral. That, though, will still frustrate property owners who wish to pass on housing wealth to their heirs, a deep desire in the Anglo-Saxon world. In 2015 Britain’s government even created an inheritance-tax exemption specifically for houses.

A land-value tax would do little to change the underlying shortages that have driven up property prices. Contrary to the claims of some Georgists, it would not much change the incentive to develop or sell valuable land, argues Stuart Adam of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, a think-tank. Owners of vacant plots in pricey areas would indeed face the same costly levy as owners of adjacent tower blocks. They would have to pay the tax somehow, and a landlord short on cash may have to sell the plot. But there would be no change in incentives for owners with deep pockets, such as property-development firms. Lower land values would exactly offset the fresh incentive to sell vacant land. Meanwhile the forgone rent from letting a plot lie vacant would remain the same. However, revenues from the tax could be used to cut conventional property taxes, which do deter building. This would not help much in rich cities where the main constraint on new building is regulatory, says Enrico Moretti of the University of California, Berkeley. But it might help rejuvenate areas that are otherwise in decline.

For instance, in the late 1970s Pittsburgh raised the tax on land values to more than five times the rate on structures. A study from 1997 by Wallace Oates and Robert Schwab credits this with sparking a flurry of commercial-property development even as the city’s steel industry declined. The handful of Pennsylvanian towns which have since adopted pure land-value taxation were generally in decline and did so in order to encourage building, says Mr Vincent. The Hawaiian building boom of the late 1960s that led Joni Mitchell to sing that the state had “paved paradise to put up a parking lot” may have been partly prompted by the introduction of a split-rate system of property tax in 1965.

Big yellow taxes

Perhaps the biggest obstacle to land-value taxes comes from the dark side to its efficiency. The moment the tax is announced land values should fall, because buyers know that once they own the land, they must pay up. Land depreciates by precisely the present value of all the taxes it will incur in future. This is not only theory. A Danish government study from 2016 found that changes in land-tax rates were fully and quickly capitalised in house prices. As a result, the taxes harm only today’s landowners. They are like a windfall tax or a confiscation of property—and, like any such levy, arouse fierce political resistance.

Yet, after decades of gains for those who have bought property in areas where values have soared, might such a windfall tax be desirable—and fair? In 2017 David Albouy and Minchul Shin of the University of Illinois and Gabriel Ehrlich of the University of Michigan, estimated that as of 2006, just five metropolises accounted for nearly half of all urban land value in America. Landowners’ gains have been society’s losses, because the shortage of land in such places constrains economic growth. America’s GDP would be fully 9% higher were regulatory limitations on building relaxed in just three cities—San Francisco, San Jose and New York—according to research by Chang-Tai Hsieh of the University of Chicago and Mr Moretti.

One of George’s arguments for confiscating land rents was that landlords do not deserve the gains they accrue when others invest in an area. This was echoed by Winston Churchill, then a Liberal, in support of the “people’s budget”. “Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains—and all the while the landlord sits still,” he thundered. The argument emphasises the potential for landowners to benefit at the taxpayer’s expense. There is lots of evidence that local house prices rise when taxpayers provide, say, better transport links.

Landowners in today’s successful cities have surely profited from public investment, but the bulk of their gain has come from an explosion of private economic activity. Around finance and technology hubs, returns to land ownership have been enormous. In the Bay Area city of San Jose, even as the median household income, not adjusting for inflation, roughly doubled between 1996 and 2016, the average house price rose by a factor of 3.7.

Land prices account for the bulk of the rise. Analysis by Build Zoom, a price-comparison website for contractors, finds that construction costs vary much less across cities than house prices (see chart 2). Rising land values explain 80% of the rise in rich-world house prices between the end of the second world war and 2012, according to research by economists Katharina Knoll, Moritz Schularick and Thomas Steger.

For ascendant technology firms, intellectual property and other intangible forms of capital are more important than land. Alphabet, the parent company of Google, owns real estate worth $23bn before accounting for depreciation. That compares to a stockmarket value of over $850bn. Even Amazon, with its network of warehouses, owns land and property worth only $24bn. Despite their lavish West Coast offices, a land-value tax would not hit these tech titans hard.

Clicks and mortar

Yet modern firms do have extraordinary power to influence land values, thereby giving immense windfall gains to landowners. Later this year Amazon is due to announce the site of its second headquarters. Cities have been competing to attract the firm. But local residents who do not own property could be forgiven for hoping that Amazon goes elsewhere. Its headquarters will employ perhaps 50,000 rich workers, who will bid up rents and land values, all the while crowding local public services and infrastructure. The chosen city will need to invest to accommodate the workers, but the costs of doing so will be unfairly spread across existing residents, because in their bid to lure the firm, cities are offering Amazon discounts on local business taxes.

Arguably the biggest winners from Amazon’s decision will be local property owners. Were their windfall gains spread around, local renters would have nothing to fear. A substantial land-value tax would do the job. Whatever the political obstacles to land-value taxes, the power of this argument in their favour remains as decisive as it was a century ago.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#18434: Sep 9th 2018 at 9:53:43 AM

Georgism is kind of quaint by modern standards. We've discussed it before but it's not really practical.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Izeinsummer Since: Jan, 2015
#18435: Sep 10th 2018 at 1:27:27 AM

Sure it is. What is no longer workable is having lvt as the sole tax, which would probably have been doable in his day.

DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#18436: Sep 15th 2018 at 12:43:18 PM

Larry Summers is officially criticizing rational expectations-style economic modelling, axiomatic microfoundations as sole grounds for macro policy and unaccountable central bankers.

I know he's not been the most zealous among the deregulators since the crisis, but yet again I am reminded that we live in the craziest of all possible worlds.

Edited by DeathorCake on Sep 15th 2018 at 7:45:38 PM

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#18437: Sep 15th 2018 at 1:34:45 PM

[up]I'm rather curious as to why he feels that way about central bankers and what he would propose to fix that.

It's been the consensus that Central Banks should be insulated from government politics, so I'm wondering how you make the Central Bank more accountable without exposing it to partisanship, or is that just a risk we should be willing to take?

DeathorCake Since: Mar, 2016 Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#18438: Sep 15th 2018 at 2:27:05 PM

[up]

I haven't actually read the book Summers is talking about yet, but my admittedly amateur opinion is that Central Banks are already exposed to political horse-trading, just not in an effective and transparent way. Case in point, the actions of the European Central Bank during the Eurocrisis to apply deliberate pressure or relief to debtor nation finances to get them to sign on the dotted line of austerity policies.

Sure, the ECB is an extreme case because it's multinational and tacked on to a set of institutions that are if anything less transparent than it is, but you can see a bit of the same thing with the public comments of Fed/Bank of England officials. The Chancellor of the Exchequer can appoint 4/9 of the Bank's Monetary Policy Committee anyway, and usually gets a favourable Governor for the Majority.

The main problem is not the fact that they can set interest rates and do QE and all that jazz, the problem is that this has effectively handed almost all economic policy to a completely unaccountable institution because politicians don't want to poke around in the fiscal toolbox and/or can't because the US Congress is seemingly deadlocked at all times. The Bank has two buttons, raise and lower interest rates and buy and sell assets. Those are both very blunt instruments to manage an economy with compared to the almost infinite flexibility of fiscal policy, and depoliticizing economic management has meant that effectively that's all we've got.

Edited by DeathorCake on Sep 15th 2018 at 9:29:15 AM

Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#18439: Sep 15th 2018 at 6:03:38 PM

[up]That's fair enough, I'm just not sure how opening up the Banks to more political scrutiny would necessarily help the situation.

Sure it might help people actually know and be invested in what Central Banks do, but it may also just make the Central Banks just as paralyzed as the governments are as far as economic policy goes.

I'd also argue that our current lack of (or in the case of the US poor quality) fiscal policy is less because of depoliticization as it is the product free-market fundamentalist politics. After all, if you've made it common sense that "government is the problem" then it is very easy to paralyze fiscal policy, or use it solely to prop up the capitalist elite.

MarqFJA The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer from Deserts of the Middle East (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
#18440: Sep 15th 2018 at 6:14:02 PM

Is it permissible under any European country's laws for two or more unrelated business entities to independently choose the same word as their respective names?

Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Iaculus Pronounced YAK-you-luss from England Since: May, 2010
Pronounced YAK-you-luss
#18441: Sep 30th 2018 at 4:27:36 PM

Is ‘late-stage capitalism.png’ on-topic for this thread? Because the official Twitter account for the Steak-umm frozen meat company did a recent thread that got... kind of real.

Edited by Iaculus on Sep 30th 2018 at 11:27:46 AM

What's precedent ever done for us?
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#18442: Sep 30th 2018 at 8:25:27 PM

[up]Vox has an article about that rant and how it's depressingly effective marketing.

Steak-umm’s new marketing strategy: millennial angst with a side of meat puns

It works because it offers a sympathetic ear to a lot of people who feel a distinct lack of sympathy in their lives.

But Steak-umm, as Steak-umm is very aware, is still a brand trying to sell you a frozen meat product that, Eater observes, millennials aren’t necessarily likely to even want. And apparently, it’s working. “We haven’t done a whole lot different in previous years in terms of traditional marketing,” says Joey Piazza, the director of marketing at Quaker Maid. “And sales are up double digits across the board ... we’re reaching a new audience that we haven’t in the past.”

Edited by M84 on Sep 30th 2018 at 11:26:17 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#18443: Oct 1st 2018 at 1:47:53 AM

Capitalism profiting off feigning sympathy for the people victimized by capitalism.

I would say I'm surprised, but I'm not.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#18444: Oct 1st 2018 at 2:18:02 AM

Nor am I surprised that it works.

The genius here is that it’s advertising, but it isn’t aspirational — like it says, millennials are too cynical for that. Instead, it mirrors our collective anxieties. People joke that the account is “one of Twitter’s therapists,” Allebach says, the frozen meat brand you go to for “life advice,” or “just to vent.” It’s not going to fix anything — it is, in its own words “a frozen meat company on Twitter” — but, you know, it hears you. The tweets don’t inspire cravings; they inspiring identification. Steak-umm is fed up too.

The Steak-umm Twitter basically acts as if it gets that human existence is often crap.

Maybe that’s the crux of it. Steak-umm does the jokes and memes and petty inter-brand feuds like the rest of brand Twitter — but it’s also willing to go dark. It is sometimes miserable, being a person. And Steak-umm is a brand that understands the marketing possibilities inherent in that. Not fixing your misery — lots of companies want to fix stuff — but seeing your misery. Identifying with your frustration.

This is sadness marketing at its finest. What matters isn’t whether beef sheets can solve your loneliness; what matters is that Steak-umm knows you’re lonely.

And yeah, it's cynical as all hell. But in a world where millennials are told all too often by their elders that they are lazy and ungrateful little shits, they will latch on to any bit of sympathy they can get. Even if it's from a frozen meat company's Twitter account.

There is something deeply wrong with society if a frozen processed sliced meat peddler is one of the only refuges of sympathy a lot of people can find.

Edited by M84 on Oct 1st 2018 at 5:38:22 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#18445: Oct 1st 2018 at 6:16:34 AM

I find the marketing campaign kind of genius, even if it can be read as blatantly cynical. "Yeah, we get you. Now consume our product."

Edited by Fighteer on Oct 1st 2018 at 9:16:13 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#18446: Oct 1st 2018 at 6:18:05 AM

Oh it is indeed brilliant. I'm not disputing that. And like the article pointed out, it seems to be working. Millennials might actually be buying Steak-umm in part because Steak-umm Twitter account is the closest thing to a therapist they can afford.

Edited by M84 on Oct 1st 2018 at 9:17:58 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
AngelusNox The law in the night from somewhere around nothing Since: Dec, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
The law in the night
#18447: Oct 1st 2018 at 6:58:53 AM

Capitalism, uh, finds a way.

Inter arma enim silent leges
math792d Since: Jun, 2011 Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#18448: Oct 1st 2018 at 8:21:27 AM

The faster we get rid of this cancerous growth in the belly of humanity the better.

Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Mio Since: Jan, 2001
#18450: Oct 1st 2018 at 8:35:22 AM

Something, something Capitalist Realism. Something, something, Cultivated Identity, and so on.

[up]Probably capitalism, which is something we will want to figure before AI and full(ish) automation arrive, but likely will not.


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