There was talk about renaming the Krugman thread for this purpose, but that seems to be going nowhere. Besides which, I feel the Krugman thread should be left to discuss Krugman while this thread can be used for more general economic discussion.
Discuss:
- The merits of competing theories.
- The role of the government in managing the economy.
- The causes of and solutions to our current economic woes.
- Comparisons between the economic systems of different countries.
- Theoretical and existing alternatives to our current market system.
edited 17th Dec '12 10:58:52 AM by Topazan
Lost in Space
Might help, might not. I think that until these executives see the inside of a prison cell, the deterrent factor will be minor.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Who Am I?
They should lose all the money they made as a consequence of the crime, plus the fine.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Fuck you, Fascist sympathizers
Fines for financial crime should be assessed as a percentage of all assets. That would really be the only thing to make them take notice, while keeping proportionality for smaller groups.
What are the proportionality rates for fines in the US or in the UK?
A procrastination in of itself
I suggest this ![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
and this . Lose all money made, face a fine and have the leadership put in jail.
edited 20th May '15 3:37:59 PM by Silasw
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
All these measures sound good. But the problem is... how the heck can they be enforced and applied? I see a lot of these executives being part of corporations that don't have a fixed place (or are placed in tax haven countries and regions), or having a buttload of eggs in different baskets.
Nations can't do it on their own, and organizations like the EU are too much of a bureaucratic semi-mess where some key players are already deep within the system (looking at you, Juncker and Draghi).
edited 20th May '15 3:46:03 PM by Quag15
A procrastination in of itself
International arrest warrens are still going to be respected by national governments. Plus if anyone goes on the run we'd have legitimate cause to seize all their assets.
That, I know. I wonder if the targeted companies/corporations will respect that or fight it in the courts for years and years, though.
edited 20th May '15 4:18:30 PM by Quag15
A procrastination in of itself
Oh they'd try every appeal they could, but within "The West" the extradition process is pretty efficient I believe , so they wouldn't be able to delay forever.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Who Am I?
Plus, being under indictment is bad for business. Companies generally prefer to settle.
"We learn from history that we do not learn from history."
Too rich to give a fuck about fines
is a major thing in the financial sector. HSBC has been outright caught laundering money for the Sinaloa Cartel and fined five weeks' profit for a third offense (and by fined, I mean "settlement with no wrongdoing admitted").
So yeah, fines are just a minor cost compared to the boodles of money made committing crime.
I despise hypocrisy, unless of course it is my own.
Those fines are too low. For example, Paypal makes at least 1% profit on every forex transaction.
Since forex is a trillion dollar (daily) business, and they've been cheating for at least a decade, those fines are peanuts.
Plants are aliens, and fungi are nanomachines.
United Earth
"So they fine us? Oh, that's fine!" Those sanctions need to be redefined.
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
V
Remove their Banking Licences, thus stopping them being able to trade in a country?
edited 21st May '15 4:48:26 AM by Greenmantle
Keep Rolling On
Lost in Space
The case could be made that such a penalty would be ruinous to those countries' economies. See: "too big to jail".
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
United Earth
Iceland doesn't seem ruined.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Perfectly sound strategy. No-one should be indispensable.
edited 21st May '15 5:24:13 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Hence Sanders' idea of breaking up any bank the moment it becomes essential.
Lost in Space
Iceland didn't suspend its banking industry; it nationalized it. Big difference. If the penalty for gross business malfeasance were seizure of your business, that might be a useful deterrent.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
A procrastination in of itself
X3 Then nationalise then so they continue to function, just under goverment control.
Part of the problem with financial companies never getting properly punished is that the goverment almost always settles, if the case went to court not only could the goverment win it could probably get some people put in jail.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
a collection of small trees
There are perfectly valid reasons to be afraid of and distrust government, and perfectly valid reasons to be afraid of and distrust corporations. It's a tricky balance. I think the people deserve more say in how they are governed.
I'm up for joining Discord servers! PM me if you know any good ones!
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
I dunno, personally I'd trust a government over a corporation any day.
But that's me as an increasingly bitter and impoverished man living in the South.
Oh really when?
Lost in Space
Unfortunately, when it comes to economic matters, "the people" tend to be largely ignorant of the underlying principles, which makes them easily manipulated into hysterical fear over public debt and inflation and similar matters. Consider how much effort it takes to explain them to people in this thread.
We could start with teaching core economics to students in high school.
edited 21st May '15 7:38:21 AM by Fighteer
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
United Earth
Nowadays, when I tell people "We're in deflation right now. This is extremely dangerous", they reply, with a raised index finger and a clever expression "Well, that's what the economists say".
Amusingly enough, if I told them "We have a global warming problem", I would never expect them to make the same smarmy expression while talking about climatologists...
edited 21st May '15 7:43:59 AM by TheHandle
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Blowout soon fellow Stalker
Where are you that people don't write off global warming as a thing and express a distrust of scientists?
Oh really when?
(NYT) Guilty Pleas and Heavy Fines Seem to Be Cost of Business for Wall St.
The Justice Department hailed the guilty pleas by JP Morgan Chase, Citigroup, Barclays, UBS and the Royal Bank of Scotland to foreign exchange and Libor manipulation charges as a victory for discouraging corporate misconduct. Attorney General Loretta E. Lynch said that the penalty of more than $5 billion that the banks agreed to pay, including $2.5 billion in criminal fines, “should deter competitors in the future from chasing profits without regard to fairness, to the law, or to the public welfare.”